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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : some Scriptures soundly refute the errors of the Calvinist TULIP:

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LoveHim
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Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

Quote:
The beginning of the chapter clearly states that man is dead, and must be made alive by God.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

There is no way a man that a dead man can live on his own.

brother roaringlamb. this verse tells us nothing that you think it does. if you do not come with the presumption that you do, you will see that all it says is that once they were dead in sins (without life) and then God joined us together with Christ. that is all it says there.
Quote:
Also this verse preceds verses 8,9-
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

this is the same as verse 1. if you come with presumptions, then it can say what you want it to. but if you look clearly at it, you will see that it simply says that that while we were dead (without life) in our sins, we were saved (that's why it's in the parenthesis) and joined together with Christ.
Quote:
When we were dead, not when we had faith, but when we were dead.

you are adding this into the verse. all it says is that once we were dead and while we were dead, God gave us new life and joined us to Christ. the question is when did he give us this new life? verse 8 answers that for you and says that it occured after we..

1) placed faith in Christ
2) then received His grace
3) then we were saved

i know that you cannot see what i am saying, but please re-read my earlier post about verse 8 again and take your time and look at the order that God shows us.
Quote:
But coming back to Ephesians,
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The grace mentioned is the animating or life giving force needed to stretch the once dead hand of faith to lay hold on Christ. The faith and the grace do not come from us, but rather are gifts from God Himself.

what is the gift?? faith?? no, we all (believer and unbeliever alike) trust in something. what is biblical faith except [b]reliance upon Christ for salvation.[/b](strongs-4102) (now if faith is reliance on Christ [b]for salvation[/b], then that means that we aren't saved yet. we place our faith [b]for salvation[/b], then receive His grace and become saved. the grace is the gift that saves us and it comes from God.

grace = charis
graciousness, the divine influence upon the heart, and it's reflection in the life; acceptable, benefit, favour, [b]gift[/b], grace(-ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, worthy).

lastly, once agin. we are saved when we..
1) first place faith in Christ
2) them receive His grace (gift)
3) are born again and filled with the Spirit

please review the verse closely and slowly withhout preconceived thoughts and just continue to meditate on it constantly. love you brother.

-phil

 2007/9/8 0:21Profile





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