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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Calvin's doctrine and Romans 1

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Christinyou
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 Re:

Quote:

"""The second part of the answer then is if God removes His Holy Spirit, what is the rebellious man left with"""

Man would be left with Christ in Him, the Life of the Believer. The Holy Spirit is the Teacher of this Life. If He were removed, the learning of the Life of Christ that God has birthed would cease.

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

This is both the Holy Spirit anointing and Jesus Christ our Life.

First the Holy Spirit: 1 John 2:27-29 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

And Christ in you "the hope of Glory":
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

When the Holy Spirit is taken out, Satan will rule the minds of men.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-9 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,



In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/9/13 4:57Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Man would be left with Christ in Him, the Life of the Believer. The Holy Spirit is the Teacher of this Life. If He were removed, the learning of the Life of Christ that God has birthed would cease.



Brother Phillip, Romans 1 is not about those who have already been adopted by God but it is about all men are given witness of the light by the Holy Spirit.

Do you see the difference from what you state above?

In Christ
jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/14 1:02Profile
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 Re:

In Proverbs 1-9 and Romans 1 we are given insight into fallen man's relationship with God and and Satan. As a third part of this precept we are also given an example which testifies of God's grace in lives of Cain and Abel. In the first two offsprings of Adam and Eve, we find that God speaks to not only one but both individuals. We find that Abel turned towards God and became the first prophet of God. Likewise we find that God also extended grace to Cain. First we know that God enabled Cain to know how to please Him. Secondly, we find that God explains to Cain why He was not pleased with his sacrifice. Thirdly, we are given the testimony that God calls on Cain to repent. Fourthly, we are given the testimony that God instructs Cain of the consequences of not obeying Him. Next, even after Cain killed Abel, God come again to Cain and speaks to him again. Next we see God, even after this event, still promises to protect Cain as he is sent out.

And finally, after 4000 years we find out the consequences of each individual's life.


1John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

Jude

11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

In Scripture we find that there are two ways...the way of Cain, and the path to righteousness. Both paths simultaneously exist for all men. According to Scripture, God presents His path to all men. Therefore, God requires all men to turn towards Him. Yet, according to Scripture we find that God also gives all men the choice to whom they will follow. And according to Scripture we hear over and over again these words...

Job 34:
10 “Therefore listen to me, you men of understanding:
Far be it from God to do wickedness,
And from the Almighty to commit iniquity.
11 For He repays man according to his work,
And makes man to find a reward according to his way.

Gal. 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

How does the doctrine of Calvin compare with this precept?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/14 1:32Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Yes.

The second part of the answer then is if God removes His Holy Spirit, what is the rebellious man left with

Christians won't be here. Rebellious man is headed for the tribulation.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/9/14 2:41Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Grace.

Grace in the old testament is all outward.
Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
2580. chen
Search for H2580 in KJVSL
Nx chen khane
from 2603; graciousness, i.e. subjective (kindness, favor) or objective (beauty):--favour, grace(-ious), pleasant, precious, (well-)favoured.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found


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Phillip

 2007/9/14 3:13Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Yes.

The second part of the answer then is if God removes His Holy Spirit, what is the rebellious man left with

Christians won't be here. Rebellious man is headed for the tribulation.



Amen....

The point of this thread is to demonstrate that God gives all men the grace necessary for all men to make a choice. The choice is either "way of Cain" or the "law of the Spirit in Christ."

This precept is established when God declares to Satan...that there will be emnity between the woman and Satan and Satan's seed and the woman's Seed.

Those that choose to walk in the way of Cain and follow Balaam will be thrown into the lake of fire along with their spiritual father Satan.

Those who choose to follow the Spirit of God will be conformed into the image of His Son. These will be those adopted out of the majority who choose to remain in captivity to Satan. These are those who becoming co-heirs with Christ.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/14 4:32Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip quoted:

Quote:
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD .



2580. NEj chen, khane; from 2603; graciousness, i.e. subjective (kindness, favor) or objective (beauty):—favour, grace(-ious), pleasant, precious, (well-)favoured.

2603. NÅnDj chanan, khaw-nan´; a primitive root (compare 2583); properly, to bend or stoop in kindness to an inferior; to favor, bestow; causatively to implore (i.e. move to favor by petition):—beseech, x fair, (be, find, shew) favour(-able), be (deal, give, grant (gracious(-ly), intreat, (be) merciful, have (shew) mercy (on, upon), have pity upon, pray, make supplication, x very.

In this word grace found in the OT...I see this attribute...

In the example given to us of Cain and Abel we see the workings of God expressed in this manner do we not.

God said to Cain...

Genesis 4;

6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Is not God working in the life of Cain in this way...causatively to implore (i.e. move to favor by petition):—beseech, x fair, (be, find, shew) favour(-able), be (deal, give, grant (gracious(-ly), intreat, (be) merciful, have (shew) mercy (on, upon), have pity upon,..

What effect does this action by God accomplish in the lives of those who obeyed and believed this "beseeching" by God...

Prov. 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; 2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; 3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; 4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; 5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. 7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly. 8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints. 9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path. 10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;

In the above precept we find that if one chooses to hear and obey the "cautively imploring" of the Lord, "Wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul."

What was once an outward call by the Holy Spirit "entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul...

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff





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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/14 4:56Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Grace in the old testament is all outward.



In the book of Proverbs we have this precept declared...

Proverbs 1:

20 Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.
21 She cries out in the chief concourses,
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:
22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

In this Scripture we find that God promises to "pour out my Spirit on you: I will make my words known to you."

Likewise we find this in the NT...

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Comparing the above event with what is spoken of in Proverbs...Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

Did not the Holy Spirit that filled the disciples do this..."I will make my words known to you."

Likewise Peter declares of this work of the Holy Spirit to be what Joel spoke of ...

Acts 2:17 “And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.

Please notice that Peter declared that God's Spirit was poured out "on" all flesh. This pouring out of the Spirit enabled men and women to speak the words of God that was made known to them. Further more, Peter did not make any distinction between what happened to the disciples being "filled" with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit being poured out "on' the disciples...should we?

I do not see where one can say that God's Spirit works in the same way to perserve all the saints whether it is in the OT or the NT.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/14 5:22Profile
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 Re:

Another thought concerning the "way of Cain."

Eph 2:1 AND you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,


From the very first example given to us in Scripture concerning fallen man, we find Paul's teaching about the "sons of disobedience."

What does he mean by "sons of disobedience" according to the precepts that Scripture reveals in Romans 1, Proverbs 1-9, Psalms 119, and Genesis 3-4?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/15 7:18Profile
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 Re:

Paul writes:

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

Here Paul teaches that men "who suppress the truth" are given the knowledge that they are guilty of unrighteousness.

Paul then defines their disobedience...

Rom. 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.


Likewise we have this same teaching in Proverbs...

Solomon teaches...

Proverbs 1:25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,

Here we see that men "disdained all my counsel, and would have none of my rebuke."

Who is the One that counsels us? By what means does God use to counsel men?


Proverbs 1

26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28 “Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD,

These "sons of disobedience" are the way they are "because they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the Lord."

Do you see the word in Scripture "choose?"

How does Calvin's doctrine affirm this precept?

In Christ
Jeff


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