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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The Time of Japheth's Troubles ...

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Hey Family, plenty of good discussion on this thread. We may veer off topic now and then though and hoping Brother Rahman doesn't mind that at all.
There's so much going through the airwaves at present, my better-half calls my room my "Command Center". Radio going - tons of News sites as desktop shortcuts and all the same things you all are probably doing in these days.
I picked up an article that I may as well just plop here also. After a while, it all merges into a "here and now" message anyway.

[b]Dollars Fall Raises Fear Of Collapse - IHT[/b]
Finance ministers and central bankers have long fretted that at some point, the rest of the world would lose its willingness to finance the United States' proclivity to consume far more than it produces - and that a potentially disastrous free-fall in the dollar's value would result. But for longer than most economists would have been willing to predict a decade ago, the world has been a willing partner in American excess - until a new and home-grown financial crisis this summer rattled confidence in the country, the world's largest economy. On Thursday, the dollar briefly fell to another low against the euro of $1.3927, as a slow decline that has been under way for months picked up steam this past week. "This is all pointing to a greatly increased risk of a fast unwinding of the U.S. current account deficit and a serious decline of the dollar," said Kenneth Rogoff, a former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund and an expert on exchange rates. "We could finally see the big kahuna hit."
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/13/news/econ.php

Appreciate the posts of Mr. & Mrs. Ironman and Brother Rahman on other threads.

If I may just talk through my theory a bit more though. Brother Rahman, I'm talking Southern now - I'm not prejudiced against my own race, but I'm telling you, I've researched this thing and the Af/Am's can take credit for the Bible Belt. Check out the maps - first the link you gave me - which shows the National area considered "the Bible Belt" and then go on with Wikipedia and check out "The Confederacy" and look at the map of the States that were in the Confederacy [both maps are identical] and then do a search on "Black Spirituals", the music and the affects the music had, even up to Martin Luther-King days. The Civil war was over States Rights. Sad History there.
When MLK was killed, the bad music was coming in stronger and changed the minds of that following generation, but from the days of Slavery until MLK's death - it was the Af/Am's Gospel Music that was strongest "Christian Wise" in this southern area and off shooting from there.
Gospel Music was accepted into white secular music and stayed strong even in that arena until this last generation.
After Slavery was abolished, some drifted up north and west, but got drowned out by jazz and swallowed up by Swing then Motown, then on to rap and hip-hop. The culture of every race is affected by it's music.
Those plantation owners, sitting on their verandas, drinking mint-juleps, did not make this Bible Belt.
Down yonder, as we call it, most of the first settlers were Scottish Presbyterians. Later on Southern Baptists. But the strong influence of the "Spiritual Songs" that were birthed out of persecution and the hardships of slavery, gave the 'back bone' to the Christianity that was in the Confederate States.
This all is an important piece of History that "white historians" would love to leave out of their writings.
But all of us "now red folks", as you say, ought to truly look at this fact and see that prejudice Stinks to High Heaven.
The Af/Am's held the true Gospel stronger [through persecution and hardships] than the white Churches did down south, until the day that MLK died - that's why they killed him. "The Plan" was/is for "race wars" and MLK and those before him, preached a type of Christian non-resistance.
If "this" identity was restored to the Af/Am community - I believe we'd see a revival for the people.
The one thing and one thing only that any of us can truly be proud of is - JESUS.
When that's in your "Roots", it changes your identity and self-image 100% and our mutual Citizenship is no longer here or overseas somewhere, but UP. We all share the same Citizenship and Heritage and have Pride in that privilege together - Thanks only to Christ. If any of our Ancestries point us to Jesus and Eternal Life, that is reason to be proud.
I don't believe there is one Born-Again Christian in my entire European Family Tree. For that I grieve.
I won't belabor my point though, though I've called it just a theory, I've felt this since I was a small child and I'm mid-fifties now. Knew the Lord around three. Grew up in a prejudiced area and family - so go figure where a toddler would get such an idea and then searched it out when I got older.
I don't know Sir, but I know much if not all of History, regardless of what it focuses on, has been tainted. Most especially from 1776 on.
Blessings to all of His Saints.

 2007/9/14 19:34
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Christ Cures Color Concerns ...



Sis S you wrote;
"Well then Brother R, I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification. And now that I think about it making reference to the called does bring some things to rememberence(I only read it twice)."

---As when we spoke my intent in any post is not to "correct" because that makes things far to pointed and personal and can become misconstrued as negative, especially since we can't see nor hear the delivery as when face to face ... That's why i attempt to use "smiley" and "laugh" face emoticons in hopes of easing edges ... My whole thing is about "clarification" ... Being confused about so many scriptural things as i was coming up is what made me seek after our Lord for clarification, and the ability and means to share it ... That's why i believe He gave me The Called, of which in the research i learned so much about the spreading of mankind ... Prior to that it really hadn't clicked that Canaan was really a descendant of Ham, and by his choice completely cut himself off (and therefore his curse) from Cush, Mizraim, and Phut, whom all we Africans descended from ... Talk about the trickle down effect, into a more self contained continent the further south our ancestors ventured ... This same misunderstanding, if not straight out twisting of the scripture, of placing Canaan's curse of slavery even on the descendants of the rest of his brethren is how the sons of Japheth justified not only the slave trade, but all subsequent theories of all Hamites being the lesser of all mankind ---


Sis S you wrote;
"And by the way, does Ironman need to send you some more pictures of our family? I am not nearly as dark as him or our daughter. But yes yes, I get it. We are certainly darker than those in the middle east!"


--- i'd started to address this before but didn't, but because of your post i will here ... i don't know if Africans have this problem, but Af /Am's sure do (altho i think that it's lessened slightly) ... But what it has to do with is predjudice amongst Af/Am's because of skin color, a precedent caused by comparrison of how "light" an Af/Am is in juxtaposition to European skin color ... i remember when i was younger many darker Af/Am's disliked me because i was what they called "yellow" ... My cousin Cary was disliked because he was concidered "red" ... i remember when i first found out this type inter-racial predjudice was even in my own family when i fell in love with a really dark girl (concidered black) ... i remember when my best friend, a Hispanic, fell in love with an Af/Am girl, and his Mom who was a very light Latina freaked out about it ... Her saying was, "If you're white you're all-right, if you're brown you can stick around, but if you're black get back" ... i remember getting treated much better by whites, especially in the arena of employment, than another of my good friends because he was dark ... i remember when it came to what was the ideal female, a trophy if you will, it was either a "white woman", or and Af/Am woman "light, bright, almost white" like Lena Horne back then ... This was/is all a part of the horrible, self-loathing, aspect of what the institution of slavery did to Hamites in America ... It institutionalized a longing to be just like, as good as, the very folk who had their foot on your neck ... There was a time in America where black people who could pass for white did ... There was a time when black women who had "kinky hair", longed to have - but hated black women who had what was called "good hair" ... Madam C.J. Walker was the first black woman in America to become a millionaire because she figured out the then potentially dangerous chemical process to "straighten" or "relax" black hair ...

i also saw this first hand in other races ... i worked with two Catholic Puerto Rican guys, one brown with very curly hair who if he didn't speak was oft mistaken for an Af/Am, the other very light and Spainard looking, they really disliked one another ... The brown Latino hung around with we Negros and was pretty much treated in the same condescending manner by our white co-workers as ourselves ... The Spainard looking PR only hung around with the white guys, was accepted by them, and he looked down his nose on us in equality with them ... Then i worked with a Latina Spainard whom i first thought was a light skinned Puerto Rican, said such, and promptly got a lesson in what a European Spainard thought of "the refuse" the Conquistadors left behind in The New World ...

All this to say again that Japheth is the standard that "the other men" attain to, and if "the other men" after salvation in Christ still hold these same old standards in feelings of "superiority" or "inferiority" then we're not free in our new found liberty in Christ, and we need to can this crapola too! ... If a saint, particularly an Af/Am, is somehow still twisted in seeing oneself, or others, as better or worse than themselves by skin color, or hair quality, then this needs to be repented up as sin, and eliminated from ones thought pattern ... This too is under the category of being renewed in the spirit of our minds! ...

Christ Jesus is the only standard, the Mediator, to which all we suffering from superiority and inferiority complexes are to meet in His unity and become one! ... Amen

[b]Rom.8
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.[/b]


 2007/9/18 8:59Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 When $$$ Talks even Discrimination Walks ...



HE_Reigns you wrote;
"This all is an important piece of History that "white historians" would love to leave out of their writings."

--- That's my point ... Back then they didn't love to leave it out - they did leave it out ... Black people were left out of everything except possibly the Census ... But as i also said i believe that's changed now and black Christianity is numbered amongst The Bible Belt stats ... A lot has changed "institutionally" in America regarding the inclusion of Af/Am's, in employment particularly when big business in America who did work for the government could'ny get contracts unless they had 10% Af/Am employees ... i myself benefited from this in gaining employment with GE, ny boss got a bonus for hiring me, and for a long time i was known amongst my white co-workers as a "token Negro" ... Same thing with education, even Christian when you look at say the racist history of Bob Jones University ... It didn't change it's tune until it stood in loss of Federal dollars for it's discriminatory treatment of negro students ... Funny how $$$ changes everything ---


HE_Reigns you wrote;
"But all of us "now red folks", as you say, ought to truly look at this fact and see that prejudice Stinks to High Heaven. The Af/Am's held the true Gospel stronger [through persecution and hardships] than the white Churches did down south, until the day that MLK died - that's why they killed him. "The Plan" was/is for "race wars" and MLK and those before him, preached a type of Christian non-resistance. If "this" identity was restored to the Af/Am community - I believe we'd see a revival for the people."

--- Hmmmm ... i guess for me there's a separation of having "the true Gospel", and "walking the walk" after attainment of "the true Gospel" message(s) ... To me the true Gospel is "Jesus Saves" and here what one has to do in order to attain that salvation, then after that comes the Christian walk which by becoming more and more familiar with Scripture one begins to shed "the old man" ... Well in the cases of what this thread is about, particularly of Japheth's descendants balancing their blessing of enlargement with Christian values and standards, in some very important areas what Christ would do came up blatantly lacking ...

Now as to the American black clergy/church up until the attainments of The Civil Rights agenda, at this point i'm saddly disappointed in them for the most part ... Why? ... Because i have a hard time with how doggedly dedicated they once we're in the attainment of "freedom", but after that struggle was won how lax they've become in the "new struggle" of the spiritual maintenance required in addressing the obvious spiritual decay and moral rot that so easily creeps in when the "oppression" is lifted ...

As i've said before, as awful as segregation was (and i don't wish it back by any means), integration brought with it a whole new set of problems ... Segregation, and racial discrimination, focused black people (primarily Christian), the black clergy, and the black Church on the attainment of "a prize" that kept them (i say them here because i was a JW during this time) on their knees before God and seeking His help ... Now one would think that after attaining "a prize" that would open up the door for an even more earnest quest toward "the prize"! ... Not so, and look what has happened to so many Af/Am's today ... Our communities have primarily become filled with weak, tepid churches with no where near the drawing closer to Jesus power they once had, and now it seems clergy and membership have for the most part signed on for "another prize" which in fact is just "another slavery", that of aping the Japhethic origined "another gospel" of wealth and prosperity attainment, completely ignoring the following scripture that may be even more painful to Af/Am Christians than other saints ... It shouldn't, but even if it does it's still truth (no matter how hard it may hit) ...

[b]1Tim.6
[1] Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
[2] And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
[3] If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
[4] He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
[5] Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
[6] But godliness with contentment is great gain.
[7] For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
[8] And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
[9] But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
[10] For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.[/b]

As a Christian i can certainly see the "erring from the faith" that the prosperity Gospel has caused particularly in America, and specifically amongst Af/Am's, and we're ALL already pierced through with many sorrows of which the pain hasn't fully registered yet ---


HE_Reigns you wrote;
"I don't believe there is one Born-Again Christian in my entire European Family Tree. For that I grieve. "


---i'm not sure what you mean by this, but if it's because of what some Europeans have done, and are yet doing, in claims of salvation whilst yet committing some dastardly deeds, only God knows whether they're saved or not, and i leave that up to Him ... in accordance to Romans chapters 9 & 11 i have a tendency to lay all things at God's feet, because while we men (even saved) are capable of doing some truly un-Christlike things, i'm really never sure of their originator if their origins, let alone the why's and wherefores particular of history ... An example being God's use of Joseph's brothers to sell him into slavery so that God could work out His plan of moving Israel into Egypt to further fulfill His plan of eventually enslaving the entire nation ... So maybe i should'nt even wonder at all, but i do, and my biggest wonder is about what i believe we have some control over ... Our own decisions ... As a Christian there are some things other men claiming Christ have done to their fellowman, and are yet doing, that i as a blood saved saint wouldn't do ... And if anything i pray that this thread pricks hearts and consciencies for the checking of our own thoughts, motivations and decisions, particularly in the arena of how we relate to our fellowman, and that as a saint in a setting of saints if we see/hear other saints behaving in a manner, particularly regarding the same subject, in ways besmirching to the name of Christ and Christianity, we'll allow Holy Spirit's use of us to call such evil: evil, and the need of repentance and mind renewal as followers of Jesus Christ ...

Blessings in Christ Jesus! ---


 2007/9/18 9:01Profile





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