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IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Blessed be the Lord God of Shem

Greetings bro R in Jesus' Name by Whose BLood we are Saved.AMEN.

you quoted this from Genesis 9:

Quote:
[24] And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.[24] And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
[25] And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
[26] And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
[27] God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.



i would like if i may to focus on vs 26. it seems to me bro that the recepient of this blessing wasn't so much Shem as it was his God who moved so that Shem wouldn't disrespect Noah as Ham did. That Shem was blessed though is without question, clearly he was. However the last part says that Canaan would be his servant. i don't know to what extent history testifies to our forefathers being servants of Shem. it seems to me (and i could be wrong so i covet what God has shown you or will show you on this matter) that while Canaan squatted in the lands of Shem, when Shem returned from Egypt, most of the inhabitants were killed off or assimilated, some into servitude. that Canaan was made a slave of Japheth goes without saying. i feel though (bro Katz alluded to this in "Honour thy father") that to some degree, the one whom Canaan is to be a servant to is the God of Shem. Of course that got off to a bad start with Nimrod who must have surprised all the kids of Shem and Japheth alike by banding them all together on that project of Babel...but could it be that that Canaan would be his servant could also be a reference to us in this period in how we will be used of God to bring the Gospel to the Nations?perhaps at the heart of Ham being the kid who nothing was expected of was a desire to be seen and to do something, like the little brother who wants to do all his big brothers do but can't coz he's too small.

i'd not really thought about that possibility until you posted this a few days ago.

Bless God for being freed from the bondages and iniquites of our forefathers by the Blood of Jesus as He moved in us to confess them and repent. Praise God indeed.AMEN.

Grace and PEace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/9/14 12:13Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: Reply to bro Ironman ...Reply to bro Rahman

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

now that i have a few moments, i'll respond to your posts, i was a bit behind there for a while!

Quote:
Amen, but you said "that means the saints aren't carrying the Torch as they ought" ... Holy Spirit told me a while back that in refering to the saints/Church i was never to say/think "they/them", but "us/we", particularly because a part of His use of me is to point out our failings, and i'm never to think of myself as some "remnant" or "truer worshipper" apart from another saint or the Body ... So that means "we saints aren't carrying the Torch as we ought" ... See the personal urgency that becomes attached to it, it's what seperates the spiritually complacent from the trumpet blowers ...



in my mind i was making no distinction between the trumpet blowers and the rest of the body so in saying "the saints" i meant anyone who is called Christian which we are all. that didn't come across and i apologize dear saints. indeed i thought myself separate from the other saints a while ago and then God set me straight...


Quote:
Revelation 2 & 3 was written to 5 churches/saints who were in need of repentance ... If any saint in Ephesus thought that because what Christ said to that Church didn't apply to them, or would effect them because they we're somehow a holy remnant, i think they'd be sadly mistaken because Christ said He'd remove that church ... To the contrary, i think that when one sees unscriptural crapola happening all around Holy Spirit ought to have a willing canditate in the person in attempts of bringing to repentance ...



yes sir! the Judgment hits everyone but the degree to which one is rooted in God determines how much each one will thrive. With no roots in God, you're done unless God moves in the midst of that to bring you through. This is going to be painfully evident in the next 110 days. Now if we find ourselves starting out by being mad at God and saying "why me i did all the right things" then we missed it...our motive for doing what is right was for gain and again, God isn't mocked or fooled by that...the word of God is a sharp 2 edged sword which is for the dividing asunder of joints and marrow, soul and spirit and the thoughts and intents of the hearts of men which we know are desperately wicked and deceptive. if we intend to do something and the word says something to us and convicts us, we ought to stop especially if it seems like the right thing to do...The danger is in becoming mechanical in doing what is right, the end of which is that when Judgment comes, the first response is outrage and anger rather than falling on one's face and acknowledging the Judgment is a result from something much closer to home rather than God being unfair or capricious.

Quote:
And amen in many of our lives claiming the Faith, it takes a back seat when it comes to material prosperity



indeed, and in many other areas of our lives also...may God help us that Christ dictates how we conduct ourselves in all things.

Quote:
Thanks bro for that scripture, our Lord has used you to show me that i'm not the only man who wonders about this



indeed God is good bro. i was once bitter to a degree, not that the degree matters any but that i was bitter over what has been happenning in Zimbabwe. as of Sept 10, there is no wheat in the country and when i spoke with bro James on wednesday, he said bread was in very short supply. Now much of that is Judgment on account of the many wicked things we are guilty of as our fathers were guilty of. Withcraft, demon worship, murders, necromancy and a host of other dark arts and other things too which we may not all have actively been involved in but that it is somewhere in our family lines sets us up for the hammer. Also the selfishness of us as men and how treacherously we dealt with eachother in times past and has been passed on to us added to the pile. Now that the U.K. overstepped her bounds in some respects in the pouring out of this Judgment speaks to that portion being given back to her...However God is good and He sent us not only Judgment, but Redepmtion and so many are receiving the Gospel. bro James also said for a glimpse of what America would be like, one needs to take a look at things in Zimbabwe as that is a preview of what we are in for while the prosperity that was here will be what shall come to Zimbabwe in short order.

i think bro that the resistance to the message of what is coming hasn't so much to do with colour (as i gathered from your experience among saints which are black) but what is inherent in man in our wickedness, a refusal to fess up and repent. if we remember well the prophets of old, we have an idea of how this message will be received by the people of God...not well.

all the same if indeed God has spoken through us, He will vindicate His word without regard to whether we listen or not...

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus who has loosed us from every hinderance.AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/9/14 12:37Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Out of Darkness into Marvelous Light ...



Bro. Ironman you wrote;
"i would like if i may to focus on vs 26. it seems to me bro that the recepient of this blessing wasn't so much Shem as it was his God who moved so that Shem wouldn't disrespect Noah as Ham did.
That Shem was blessed though is without question, clearly he was. "


--- What strikes me about "Blessed be the LORD God of Shem" is that it seems even at this point, in fact at his birth, Shem (name) was already chosen by HaShem(The Name=God) to bear His choosing ... To me it seems that Shem didn't have to get a direct blessing in that His being chosen was the blessing in itself ... It's much the same way i feel about my own pre-destination, that for some reason unfathomable to me He chose me as one of His "vessels of mercy", "the called", to which i know i'm so unworthy but so very thankful that He did! ... ---


Bro Ironman you wrote,
"However the last part says that Canaan would be his servant. i don't know to what extent history testifies to our forefathers being servants of Shem."

---While Canaan may well be a far distant relative, i as a Hamite don't identify with him at all ... His breaking off and choosing to live in Shem's land where he didn't belong set he and his descendants up for even more difficulty than those who went on to Africa to their agreed alotment ... i identify soley with the African Hamite, to which history, and a new DNA test, shows that 99% of all Black people in America descended from enslaved Africans derived from West Africa in the Senegal - Liberia area ---


Bro Ironman you wrote,
"Of course that got off to a bad start with Nimrod who must have surprised all the kids of Shem and Japheth alike by banding them all together on that project of Babel...but could it be that that Canaan would be his servant could also be a reference to us in this period in how we will be used of God to bring the Gospel to the Nations?"

--- As i stated before, i think because of what transpired with Noah, and the cursing of Ham's baby boy Canaan, i think Ham already apparently a problem child, became worse and he and his descendants bore a chip on their shoulder which manifested itself in Nimrod, because at the tower of Babel Nimrod said, that he'd: make a "shem" (name - for himself) ... So no i don't think that pronouncement on Canaan has any bearing whatsoever on us today in any way regarding our being servants to Shem ... If anything, if in fact God will allow the sons of Ham an opportunity to steward His Gospel in a way that might provoke the Jew to jealousy it won't be because of our being his servant, but because of our being HIS servant toward them, in ways of bearing HaShem that pricks them to the memory of a more glorious time when they were the principle carriers of "true worship" ---


Bro Ironman you wrote,
"Bless God for being freed from the bondages and iniquites of our forefathers by the Blood of Jesus as He moved in us to confess them and repent. Praise God indeed.AMEN."

--- Amen - this is the best part - But might i add - May He now quicken us ALL regardless of nationality, race, creed, colar and class, to truly live we're "freed from the bondages and iniquites of our forefathers by the Blood of Jesus" ...

i know we as the Body, particularly here in the U.S., aren't there yet because we're Laodicean blind,
soon to be rudely awakened, and forced into a "sensory overload", much like what happens when one has been in the dark so long, and suddenly someone turns on a bright light! ... The blessing will be that our darkness will be eliminated, it just won't feel initially like it's marvelous ...


 2007/9/14 13:07Profile
Shelley_db
Member



Joined: 2007/4/9
Posts: 7
Galveston

 Re: Out of Darkness into Marvelous Light ...

Bro R you wrote:

Quote:
While Canaan may well be a far distant relative, i as a Hamite don't identify with him at all ... His breaking off and choosing to live in Shem's land where he didn't belong set he and his descendants up for even more difficulty than those who went on to Africa to their agreed alotment ... i identify soley with the African Hamite


I would just like to clarify that and make sure that I understand correctly that Canaan was indeed the son of Ham who received the curse for Ham's wrong doing. In Genesis 9:25 it says: he said, "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers."
It just seems to me that in denying being a descendent of Canaan it might cause confusion and I wonder if reading the scripture again would clarify that Canaan is the son Ham and being a descendent of Canaan makes us a descendant of Ham.

Also Bro R you said:

Quote:
So no i don't think that pronouncement on Canaan has any bearing whatsoever on us today in any way regarding our being servants to Shem ... If anything, if in fact God will allow the sons of Ham an opportunity to steward His Gospel in a way that might provoke the Jew to jealousy it won't be because of our being his servant, but because of our being HIS servant toward them, in ways of bearing HaShem that pricks them to the memory of a more glorious time when they were the principle carriers of "true worship" ---


But in Genesis 9:26-27 it says: He also said, "Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! [color=0000FF]May Canaan be the slave of Shem. [/color]May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, [color=0000CC]and may Canaan be his slave.[/color]
I tend to read the bible as it says so it says 1. that Canaan would be the slave of Shem and 2. Canaan would be the slave of Japheth. Now we have seen already in history and as you have accurately recounted with many examples how Canaan(Ham's son) has already been the slave of Japheth. I expect that Canaan will be the one to carry the gospel to Shem and to me carrying the gospel also imlies service. So don't get bent out of shape over the word servant and thinking back to the days of slavery. Rather think of Shem being provoked to jealousy in how Canaan(sons of Ham) carry the Gospel, how we serve God and how we serve Shem in bringing that gospel to him(Shem).
I also believe that "Canaan's breaking off and choosing to live in Shem's land where he didn't belong set he and his descendants up for even more difficulty than those who went on to Africa to their agreed alotment"Speaks largley to the rebellion that we see in Ham and consequently in us black people in general.
It make sense in my spirit and in my head, I hope it makes sense on the thread!


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Shelter

 2007/9/14 16:34Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro He Reigns

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose BLood we are Saved.AMEN.

you know the articles you posted were rather interesting, especially the first one...there have been rumblings about martial law and such for a while now and it seems if this is true, the government may well be suspecting something is coming. if our Lord has spoken to the saints charged with the task of warning of this calamity, and we have heard rightly, the movements in the first article are in keeping with the expectation of calamity.

you said this on a lighter note:


Quote:
BTW-my skin color is what they call "white" - strange - it doesn't look white to me. I'd surely call the ambulance if it did.



i know, i don't know who came up with that but if my skin suddenly looked white, i'd call an ambulance too!

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/9/14 16:57Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 White, Bladk and Buffalo SOldiers...

bro R

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose BLood we are Saved.AMEN.

i wonder who it was who coined these terms, black, and white and so on, he must have had rose-colored glasses or something... :-P

i always wondered where the term buffalo soldier came from, i knew it had something to do with blacks as soldiers (from the video for the song of the same title by bob Marley) but didn't know it had to do with our hair. interesting since our hair is curly like that.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus. AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/9/14 17:01Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: Out of Darkness into Marvelous Light ...

Greetings bro R in Jesus' Name by WHose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

Quote:
While Canaan may well be a far distant relative, i as a Hamite don't identify with him at all ... His breaking off and choosing to live in Shem's land where he didn't belong set he and his descendants up for even more difficulty than those who went on to Africa to their agreed alotment ... i identify soley with the African Hamite, to which history, and a new DNA test, shows that 99% of all Black people in America descended from enslaved Africans derived from West Africa in the Senegal - Liberia area



well that Canaan was cursed and was the first born implies that whoever came afterward would get some of that curse. However as i said, i don't know that history says that Canaan was much of a servant of Shem. Now that the blessing from Noah was to the Lord GOd of Shem speaks more of servitude toward God rather than Shem necessarily.

Quote:
If anything, if in fact God will allow the sons of Ham an opportunity to steward His Gospel in a way that might provoke the Jew to jealousy it won't be because of our being his servant, but because of our being HIS servant toward them, in ways of bearing HaShem that pricks them to the memory of a more glorious time when they were the principle carriers of "true worship" ---



that's what i felt.

Quote:
Amen - this is the best part - But might i add - May He now quicken us ALL regardless of nationality, race, creed, colar and class, to truly live we're "freed from the bondages and iniquites of our forefathers by the Blood of Jesus" ...



AMEN.

there was a song i listened to the other day by Burning Spear.there is a verse which hits me when he says:

those who know right, and do ye not,
shall be spanked with many a stripe!
weeping and wailing and mourning!
oh you've got yourselves to blame (i saw we have ourselves to blame)

We're about to get hit with it...God help us and wake us up.AMEN.

Grace and PEace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/9/14 17:12Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:Out of Darkness into Marvelous Light ...



Sis S you wrote;
"I would just like to clarify that and make sure that I understand correctly that Canaan was indeed the son of Ham who received the curse for Ham's wrong doing. In Genesis 9:25 it says: he said, "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers." It just seems to me that in denying being a descendent of Canaan it might cause confusion and I wonder if reading the scripture again would clarify that Canaan is the son Ham and being a descendent of Canaan makes us a descendant of Ham. "


Sis S ... First get a map and look at how far apart Canaan (vacinity of modern Israel) is from the continent of Africa ... When Canaan was living in Israel the rest of the sons of Ham were off populating Africa ... It seems the further south we went, eventually the darker we got ... i don't believe Canaan who settled in the land of Shem, shortly after the flood and the dividing up of the land, over the centuries, and especially over millenia, would look anything like you or i, but rather more middle eastern looking because of their being effected as Shem by the same climate, etc ... That's why i said at the beginning i believe that at the onset Shem, Ham and Japheth looked pretty much alike as being brethren birthed from the same mother and Dad, but that i very much doubt we descendants (with the exception of Shem because we all came from the Middle Eastern area of Eden's location) over such a long period of time would look the same now ... Thus Canaan, tho a son of Ham, living in the vacinity of Israel, if we could pinpoint any of his descendants today i doubt very much would look anything like us, they would'nt be as dark as you and bro Ironman, who descended from Zimbabwe (S. Africa), or as dark as myself even tho i'm mixed with Japheth via English/Irish DNA ... i think they'd look as i said Middle Eastern, much as the Iranians (Persians) tho Japhethic via Madai who like Canaan also settled in Shems land, and they look nothing like Europeans ... Hope you're following me here ...

That's why i said,
"While Canaan may well be a far distant relative, i as a Hamite don't identify with him at all ... His breaking off and choosing to live in Shem's land where he didn't belong set he and his descendants up for even more difficulty than those who went on to Africa to their agreed alotment ... i identify soley with the African Hamite, to which history, and a new DNA test, shows that 99% of all Black people in America descended from enslaved Africans derived from West Africa in the Senegal - Liberia area"

The other thing is the Bible quotes Canaan as being the father of Sidon, his firstborn; and of the Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, Arvadites, Zemarites, and Hamathites. Later the Canaanite clans scattered, and the borders of Canaan reached [across the Mediterranean coast] from Sidon toward Gerar as far as Gaza, and then [inland around the Jordan Valley] toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, as far as Lasha (from Wickepedia).

So yep Canaan may be a far distant cousin in my book, but i find it hard to fathom how we who're derived oor seperate ancestry from Hamites settled in west and south Africa can make that connection in lineage, let alone the curse pronounced on the Canaanites ---


Sis S you wrote;
"Now we have seen already in history and as you have accurately recounted with many examples how Canaan(Ham's son) has already been the slave of Japheth."

---i haven't pointed out such instances as Canaan being slaves to Japheth, but of African Hamites, specifically from the west coast of Africa being slaves of Japheth ---


Sis S you wrote;
"I expect that Canaan will be the one to carry the gospel to Shem and to me carrying the gospel also implies service. So don't get bent out of shape over the word servant and thinking back to the days of slavery. Rather think of Shem being provoked to jealousy in how Canaan (sons of Ham) carry the Gospel, how we serve God and how we serve Shem in bringing that gospel to him(Shem).

--- i think my upper post will clear my take on this also ... And sis i'm not bent out of shape over anything regarding this thread, as i tried to make clear from the beginning the words "slave", "servant", etc. don't affect me in the negative ways it once did ...

Also, as i posted to bro Ironman prior we may "suspect" that God may allow the sons of Ham (my own personal belief Canaan's descendants excluded for obvious OT reasons), it's been prophesied, but there's no Biblical indication of this, and so if it is to be we'll know it when it hits us ... In fact bro Ironman and myself will know it (i believe) for sure as soon as God proves us true in what we believe He's told us to prophesy ... If we're proven wrong then that shoots all the other, what i call extra-carricular faith, right out the window and we can all settle down to a far less dramatic walk with our Lord than we're all engaged in now ---


Sis S you wrote,
"I also believe that "Canaan's breaking off and choosing to live in Shem's land where he didn't belong set he and his descendants up for even more difficulty than those who went on to Africa to their agreed alotment" Speaks largley to the rebellion that we see in Ham and consequently in us black people in general. It make sense in my spirit and in my head, I hope it makes sense on the thread!"

---Amen it does seeem that we've descended from the most rebellious of the brethren, but if you recall from "The Called", in the Book of Jubilees it stated that Canaan's brothers (those who went on to Africa) begged Cannan not to settle in Shem's land because "it wasn't right" ... He did so anyway, i hope you can see now that are as seperated in consequences from Africans and he and his descendants in Shem's land, physically as far apart from we the bulk of Ham's descendants as Senegal and Zimbabwe is from the land of Israel ... The two don't connect ---



Blessings in Christ Jesus ... Gotta run, my baby bro is in from Cali this weekend! :-D ... ---


 2007/9/14 17:52Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

:-)


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Farai Bamu

 2007/9/14 18:50Profile
Shelley_db
Member



Joined: 2007/4/9
Posts: 7
Galveston

 Re: mea culpa

Well then Brother R, I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification. And now that I think about it making reference to the called does bring some things to rememberence(I only read it twice).
And by the way, does Ironman need to send you some more pictures of our family? I am not nearly as dark as him or our daughter. But yes yes, I get it. We are certainly darker than those in the middle east!


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Shelter

 2007/9/14 18:54Profile





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