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K_DAY
Member



Joined: 2006/7/28
Posts: 144
Ann Arbor, MI

 Re:

Moe Mac-

Wow! I was really hoping I didn't open up a can of sour worms! Thank you so much for your post, the manner in which you presented it, and the encouragement you gave me. It was just what I needed tonight! :-D

I am also glad that we are on the same page as to what we believe freedom is. There is nothing like it! Makes me wonder why I so often subject myself to anything besides it...

Quote:
We have an enemy that wants to stop the missionaries, the preachers, and all who proclaim HIS name.

Very true. I am experiencing that attack in some very real ways in my life right now.

Quote:
I think that is what really gets me irritated is I know the devil is working in the terrorist lives


Ever since my father died, I haven't felt that same holy anger that you speak of. I still acknowledge it all in my head, but there is much that God needs to do in my life to properly realign my heart.

I guess the question is what to do about those terrorists that the devil has a hold on. I want to believe powerfully that "our weapons are not of this world!" I realize that if we kill them, we are with our own hands ending their life and beginning their eternity in hell. To me that is a dreadful thought. Do they deserve hell? Of course. And so do I. I am thankful that I was shown mercy.

Could America not have sent missionaries instead of soldiers? Food instead of bombs? Sure they may have slaughtered us, but our hands would be clean, and perhaps some sinners would repent. These outcomes would be far worth the cost of our life, and great would our reward be in heaven. And I pray that the Lord may enable me to be prepared to live by these standards if so called to.

God bless.

-K_DAY

 2007/9/8 2:15Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Hi Moe Mac,

Quote:
These people you are referring to are not, I repeat are not true witnesses for the Jehovah God I serve,



I understand that....I was just telling about an incident and was curious if perhaps some people here at SI feel the same way about 'pledging allegiance' to an 'earthly kingdom.' I mean if you really feel this nation is the literal incarnation of Babylon or the 21st century manifestation of ancient Rome, all of which is perhaps understandable, then such convictions would make it difficult if not impossible to pledge allegiance to this nation.

I was just curious how literal people are willing to follow their convictions. Obviously the Jehovah Witnesses, as misled as they are, are very serious about their seperation from earthly allegiances. Though I am no expert on JW doctrine, they clearly are teaching their children exclusive allegiance to only one 'kingdom'. Much of the discussion regarding nations and governments here at SI is similar in tone...I was just wondering if espousing beliefs about not being citizens of an earthly kingdom has any bearing on something as simple yet profound as placing your hand over your heart and publicly vowing allegiance to an earthly kingdom.

It's probably too personal of a question for me to ask.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/9/8 11:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:
Hi Moe Mac,

Quote:
These people you are referring to are not, I repeat are not true witnesses for the Jehovah God I serve,



I understand that....I was just telling about an incident and was curious if perhaps some people here at SI feel the same way about 'pledging allegiance' to an 'earthly kingdom.' I mean if you really feel this nation is the literal incarnation of Babylon or the 21st century manifestation of ancient Rome, all of which is perhaps understandable, then such convictions would make it difficult if not impossible to pledge allegiance to this nation.

I was just curious how literal people are willing to follow their convictions. Obviously the Jehovah Witnesses, as misled as they are, are very serious about their seperation from earthly allegiances. Though I am no expert on JW doctrine, they clearly are teaching their children exclusive allegiance to only one 'kingdom'. Much of the discussion regarding nations and governments here at SI is similar in tone...I was just wondering if espousing beliefs about not being citizens of an earthly kingdom has any bearing on something as simple yet profound as placing your hand over your heart and publicly vowing allegiance to an earthly kingdom.

It's probably too personal of a question for me to ask.

MC




moe_mac
I am well aware of the point you were driving home and that is why I posted my reply. Your post to me was more of a statement, than a question. A statement I have addressed over and over again. A way of thinking I believe that is turning a nation that once honored God and country into deception of just how we are to resist evil in the world. Brother, I am well aware you have plenty of company in this way of new modern way of thinking. If God did not want you to serve others and protect others in the world, after he filled us with His Spirit, HE would have took us on to heaven when he saved our soul. Our allegience is to the Lamb and when it is to the Lamb, it will be in our spirit to protect and to urge others to come to HIM and will be also to provide protection for others including protection from the evil ones, the devil uses to destroy their bodies, before God can save their soul.
Blessings
moe

 2007/9/8 12:35
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Moe,

It was really just a question. I was taking care to ask with clarity, but hopefully without trying to interject my own editorial or idealogical slant...an intentional ambiguity that could account for you incorrectly identifying the 'company' I share.

I still think it's an interesting question, but I see now that any possible answer would only result in strife. I'll just admit it was a mistake to ask the question,... I regret asking it, and drop the issue.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/9/8 12:52Profile
K_DAY
Member



Joined: 2006/7/28
Posts: 144
Ann Arbor, MI

 Re:

Quote:
Brother, I am well aware you have plenty of company in this way of new modern way of thinking.



Can you please clarify what you are referring to as a "new modern way of thinking"? If this way of thinking you are referring to is nonresistance, then I would certainly suggest reworking that statement.

Sure, nonresistance has never been at the heart of America, but it is certainly nothing new. Read about the history of the Anabaptists, for example. Going back further, I remember our Lord commanding us, "Don't resist and evil person." To write it off as just a "new modern way of thinking" is inaccurate, and seems to degrade those in that company as some sort of new age life philosophy. Other people in this forum have been so bold as to call those in that company "hippies."

People who believe this are very solemn and sincere in their convictions before God, and are not trying to invent doctrine or new aqe philosophies. Nor are they just a bunch of "liberals." It has nothing to do with any of that, and everything to with trying to serve God and understand how we are commanded to serve others to the best of our ability.

-K_DAY

 2007/9/8 13:29Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:
Quote:
My kingdom is not of this world:



This week our litle girl told us about a Jehovah Witness classmate at school that is forbidden by her parents to say the pledge of allegiance. I was curious if perhaps some people here at SI feel the same way. (Maybe this question has been asked before.) Are there some SI brethren who believe it is wrong to join in the pledge of allegiance to the United States or any other state?

I'm not 'going anywhere' with this question...just curious. Perhaps such a 'poll' should be the start of another thread...

MC



I can't say it's wrong nor do I think those who do are "less spiritual" or something silly like that, but personally it troubles my conscience to pledge allegiance to the flag.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/9/8 13:44Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

By the way, I'm not an anti-government hippy!

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

Yet,

Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a [b]good conscience[/b], and of faith unfeigned:

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and [b]a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: [/b]

EDIT:

Quote:
I mean if you really feel this nation is the literal incarnation of Babylon



That made me laugh. Just in case I need to say it, I don't believe that. :-D


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/9/8 13:54Profile









 Re:

Quote:

K_DAY wrote:
Quote:
Brother, I am well aware you have plenty of company in this way of new modern way of thinking.



Can you please clarify what you are referring to as a "new modern way of thinking"? If this way of thinking you are referring to is nonresistance, then I would certainly suggest reworking that statement.

Sure, nonresistance has never been at the heart of America, but it is certainly nothing new. Read about the history of the Anabaptists, for example. Going back further, I remember our Lord commanding us, "Don't resist and evil person." To write it off as just a "new modern way of thinking" is inaccurate, and seems to degrade those in that company as some sort of new age life philosophy. Other people in this forum have been so bold as to call those in that company "hippies."

People who believe this are very solemn and sincere in their convictions before God, and are not trying to invent doctrine or new aqe philosophies. Nor are they just a bunch of "liberals." It has nothing to do with any of that, and everything to with trying to serve God and understand how we are commanded to serve others to the best of our ability.

-K_DAY

[color=FF0000]What I am referring to as liberals, without going into a long spill, the christian's service to a nation has changed from 1963 when a few federal judges removed any reference to scripture in schools and anything else or place and this is in direct contrast to the history of our nation that is not only reflected in the the constitution that was written by not only Godly men, but mostly preachers of he gospel, whose main objective was to serve God, in the name of Jesus and set up a goverment against evil and in dependency upon HIM would allow God use them to reach others for HIS kingdom. This is what has changed. We all know the spill and we know the groups that support this withput naming them. It is an agenda to deceive the younger generation in knowing and believing that God is our source and our strength in everything, including government. Destroy it form the inside. "Unless the Lord build, we labor in vain", one of our past Presidents said. Another said "when we no longer consider ourselves one nation under God, we will be a nation gone under". It is not my intent on promoting any party, but only speaking the fact that we in the past history of America we did look to HIM and we need to get back to giving HIM supremacy in everything, including goverment, until He returns for those who are HIS. I will speak out and stand against all who don't desire to acknowledge HIS supremacy in everything, regardless of party, color, creed or whatever else. Those people that does not acknowledge HIS supremacy is what I am calling liberal. A hippy is a lesser evil my book.[/color]

 2007/9/8 14:39
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
moe_mac
I am well aware of the point you were driving home and that is why I posted my reply. Your post to me was more of a statement, than a question. A statement I have addressed over and over again. A way of thinking I believe that is turning a nation that once honored God and country into deception of just how we are to resist evil in the world. Brother, I am well aware you have plenty of company in this way of new modern way of thinking.



That is an insinuation and wrong Moe, Compton need not have to had to state this;

Quote:
I still think it's an interesting question, but I see now that any possible answer would only result in strife. I'll just admit it was a mistake to ask the question,... I regret asking it, and drop the issue.

MC




_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/9/8 14:53Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
the christian's service to a nation has changed from 1963



I don't understand. How can a judge change what the Bible says? Assuming we get information on "the christian's service to a nation" from the Bible. I'm not saying this from an apolitical or political mindset, but I don't see how anything a man could do would change what the Bible says.

Quote:
the the constitution that was written by not only Godly men, but mostly preachers of he gospel, whose main objective was to serve God, in the name of Jesus and set up a goverment against evil and in dependency upon HIM would allow God use them to reach others for HIS kingdom.



My question would be, where does the Bible say to set up governments against evil? And if we weren't commanded to do such, how can we be sure it was God ordained?

Please understand, I'm not against America or any other government. I'm happy where I am located in the world. I just don't believe there is such a things as a "Christian nation" unless your referring to the Church or the "millennial reign."

EDIT: I decided to cross something out.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/9/8 15:26Profile





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