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thomasm
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Joined: 2007/8/17
Posts: 116
Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

 Re:

I don't think anyone is saying, anything against the OT. We have all the promises about Christ there, though they longed to see, what we have, the fulfillment of the promises, that started the day Adam fell. You see Paul, Peter, John, or even Jesus Himself, didn't merely quote the word, they also gave, the revelation that the Spirit was showing them about it. Sometimes when we merely quote the word, it's hard to understand, where you are coming from. There is so much misunderstood scripture, that it's hard to discern, if we are on the same page.
I remember when I was young in the Lord, He would give me revelation, on a word, and I would be lite up like a light bulb, just overjoyed, and I'd share the verse with someone, there responds was "so I read that two years ago" or something like that. I asked God "Why don't they see it." he said "Quote the word but speak the revelation."
love IN CHRIST tom


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Tom weighill

 2007/10/6 2:00Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Phillip quoted this Scripture...

Quote:
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.



Did Christ "pervert" His gospel when He sent out His disciples to preach even before He taught them that He was going to die on the cross?

Quote:
Collisians, save thing: Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;



But why must Paul always teach about the effects of the "old man" verses the 'new man"?

Whether it is the Ephesians, Corinthians, or Colossians, even being given all things in Christ, even being given all spiritual gifts, evening being taught over and over again about what it means to have Christ in them, why do they continue to suffer from the works of the flesh?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/10/6 10:16Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Thomas wrote:

Quote:
I remember when I was young in the Lord, He would give me revelation, on a word, and I would be lite up like a light bulb, just overjoyed, and I'd share the verse with someone, there responds was "so I read that two years ago" or something like that. I asked God "Why don't they see it." he said "Quote the word but speak the revelation."



Yes, to be taught by God, to experience His revelation to our inner man creates the substance of what we hope for, the evidence of things unseen...

Brother, I am sorry for anything that may cause you grief...

The point I often try to bring out in this forum is the power of all Scripture to make us wise for salvation...

Your words above remind me of another man who had a similar experience...

Psalm 119

81. My soul faints for Your salvation,
But I hope in Your word.
82. My eyes fail from searching Your word,
Saying, "When will You comfort me?"

When one has a thirst like you have testified of and is similar to what this man, who was inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote, then you can know without doubt, that you are a disciple of Christ.

Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it [is] my meditation all the day.

Psa 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they [are] ever with me.

Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies [are] my meditation.

Psa 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Psa 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.

Psa 119:102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.

Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! [yea, sweeter] than honey to my mouth!

Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Psa 119:106 I have sworn, and I will perform [it], that I will keep thy righteous judgments.

Psa 119:107 I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O LORD, according unto thy word.


In the above section of Scripture we find that your testimony is in line with this man.

Have you ever considered that the "light bulb' experience you testified of, is the same that this man prays for when he says..."quicken me, O Lord, according unto thy word."

The reason I contend with Brother Phillip is that he believes that Paul's gospel is superior to all other Scripture in it's ability to save the individual. What I try to do is to bring to light the "mystery" which was working in all generations to bring men into the light as Jesus is the light.

The works of Jesus are testified to all generations. The book of Job, the oldest book of the Bible testifies that Christ is Job's savior....the more one sees Christ throughout Scripture the greater He becomes in one's life...

You see, if we don't find ourselves sharing the same experiences of the OT saints, we may not be abinding in the vine.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/10/6 10:38Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:



""The reason I contend with Brother Phillip is that he believes that Paul's gospel is superior to all other Scripture in it's ability to save the individual. What I try to do is to bring to light the "mystery" which was working in all generations to bring men into the light as Jesus is the light""



I don't believe it is superior, but I do believe you cannot use 1973 Chevy PU manual to fix or overhaul a 2002 Chevy PU, purchased new.

Paul's gospel brings forth a new creature in the birthing. Not a fixed up creature by Moses manual. A new complete Chevy with its own Manual. Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

"according to the dispensation of God", New owners manual, called "My Gospel", by Paul, Author: Jesus Christ, Teacher: Holy Spirit.

No old testament saint has Not this model. Each one that is born again is a complete new model a dispensation in the fullness of time by God and has its own owners manual, Author: Jesus Christ, Teacher: Holy Spirit in you, not with you. You cannot fix a born again believer by the Moses works Law Manual. You must have the Year and Model Manual, to deal with the New Creature.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

In Christ a complete new model.

The old model sacrifice is not the same as the New Model Sacrifice, is it?

Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
A Christ one, a son: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/10/6 13:31Profile
thomasm
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Joined: 2007/8/17
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 Re:

Dear Jeff;
I still do not understand, what you are trying to say, yes David was inspired by the mantle of God, the Spirit with him, Most of the psalms are prophetic words about Christ, whom they longed to see and understand, all these saints in the old covenant, died looking for the day in which we now stand. They trusted God, but redemption, was still a promise for the future.[heb;11;39-40] Jesus is that promise, he went into the grave and delivered those who were held captive and brought the fullness of what they hoped for into reality.[eph; 8-10] These were those who were obedient by faith, or because they believed in God they acted.[Rom;4;1-25] The old testament has to be brought under the light of the gospel of grace, not the law of moses, which cannot save and did not save anyone, it only made them and us aware of our sin,[rom;7;7-25] and need for Gods mercy through Christ who is Lord over all, and through all, to the praise of his glory.[rom;5;1-11].
We live in righteousness because the Spirit of righteousness, [Christ] is now our life, not a following of rules, but new life in the new creature, with Gods nature, which is Love, guiding us. Love does no harm.
love IN CHRIST tom


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Tom weighill

 2007/10/7 16:44Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
No old testament saint has Not this model. Each one that is born again is a complete new model a dispensation in the fullness of time by God and has its own owners manual, Author: Jesus Christ, Teacher: Holy Spirit in you, not with you. You cannot fix a born again believer by the Moses works Law Manual. You must have the Year and Model Manual, to deal with the New Creature.



Do you believe that a babe in Christ is carnal christian?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/10/8 0:22Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Thomas wrote:

Quote:
Most of the psalms are prophetic words about Christ, whom they longed to see and understand, all these saints in the old covenant, died looking for the day in which we now stand.



Do you believe that the word of God, when read by the OT saints, had any power in them as you have testified of your own "light bulb" experience?


Quote:
They trusted God, but redemption, was still a promise for the future.



Do you consider the ressurection to be the redemption that all are waiting for some time in the future?

Rom. 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Eph. 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


Quote:
Jesus is that promise, he went into the grave and delivered those who were held captive and brought the fullness of what they hoped for into reality.[eph; 8-10]



Until the blood of Christ was spilled, the OT saints were held still in bondage to the fall of man.

Romans 6:
17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Is the grace of God only in the NT? What does Scriptures teach?



Quote:
These were those who were obedient by faith, or because they believed in God they acted.[Rom;4;1-25]



Is this not still the same path...

Rom. 11:36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

How is our mind renewed daily?



Quote:
The old testament has to be brought under the light of the gospel of grace, not the law of moses, which cannot save and did not save anyone, it only made them and us aware of our sin,[



The law was never meant to save anyone. The purpose of the law is as you stated," it only made them and us aware of our sin,"

But we have this testimony from Paul concerning the power of God's grace in the OT saints...


Romans 11:

2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”

In the last verse we see that the grace of God enabled these saints to overcome the wicked one. Likewise John writes of the young men in whom the word of God abides...

14 I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.

The power of God's word abiding in the saint enables that saint to escape the bondage of Satan.

Paul goes on in his teaching of the nature of the grace extended to the OT saints...

5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Quote:
We live in righteousness because the Spirit of righteousness, [Christ] is now our life, not a following of rules, but new life in the new creature, with Gods nature, which is Love, guiding us. Love does no harm.



What you wrote above is also stated by Solomon...

Proverbs 2:

1 My son, if you receive my words,
And treasure my commands within you,
2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom,
And apply your heart to understanding;
3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD,
And find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice,
Equity and every good path.
10 When wisdom enters your heart,
And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you;
Understanding will keep you,
12 To deliver you from the way of evil,
From the man who speaks perverse things,

10..."when wisdom enters your heart....who is our wisdom?

God Bless

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/10/8 0:58Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Psalm 119:

160 The entirety of Your word is truth,
And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

1John 5:6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.


What part of God's word is not able to transform man into the image of His Son?


In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/10/8 1:05Profile
thomasm
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Joined: 2007/8/17
Posts: 116
Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Psalm 119:

160 The entirety of Your word is truth,
And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

1John 5:6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.


What part of God's word is not able to transform man into the image of His Son?


In Christ
Jeff



Hi Jeff; now your speaking more clearly, I was worried you were promoting, the law for righteousness, I believe Jesus is the word of God, apart from his indwelling, or rheum,[living word in us], we cannot understand the written word.
The saints in the OT were saved by grace through faith, just as we are, but Jesus Christ in the flesh, hadn't been revealed yet, so there hope was in His coming. Our hope is in His return the redemption of our bodies, our souls are already redeemed, Jesus redeemed the OT souls when He entered the regions of death, and proclaimed the good news, so they to are at the throne of God, as we are seated in the heavenlies with Christ.
That the only difference, when they believed they had to wait until, Jesus came, to receive the redemption, we are instantly seated with Christ when we believe.

And yes all the written word is good for growing in the grace of God, but it is the indwelling of the Spirit that transforms us, not the written word, the Spirit gives life to the written word and we are transformed by the power of God.

1cor 2;6-16...But we have the mind of Christ.
We all ready have it, though not many are ready to receive this word yet, so it can be a reality in them.

love IN CHRIST tom


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Tom weighill

 2007/10/8 11:42Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Thomas wrote:

Quote:
Jesus redeemed the OT souls when He entered the regions of death, and proclaimed the good news, so they to are at the throne of God, as we are seated in the heavenlies with Christ.
That the only difference, when they believed they had to wait until, Jesus came, to receive the redemption, we are instantly seated with Christ when we believe.



According to the Scripture that I posted, the redemption will take place at the first resurection. The Holy Spirit is the seal for us that believe. Paul says that the presence of the Holy Spirit is the down payment for the redemption that will take place some day in the future. We only see dimly what will one day be brighter than the sun; the glory of the Father and the Son. In that day we will see Him as He is.

Quote:
1cor 2;6-16...But we have the mind of Christ.
We all ready have it, though not many are ready to receive this word yet, so it can be a reality in them.



Yes, we do have access to the mind of Christ. As you have quoted Paul's testimony of the gift that was freely given to the Corinthians, yet we also find that many were falling short of knowing the mind of Christ.

This reminds me of another time when Scripture points out that the gospel was preached to the generation of Moses. This is found in the book of Hebrews...

Heb. 4:2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

Have you ever considered this event? And have you ever considered why the Corinthians who were babes in Christ were not able to know the mind of Christ?

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/10/9 2:27Profile





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