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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Concerning Adam II

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 Re:

Let's go back to the Garden of Eden and see where the truth lies.

Genesis never deifies Adam. How can we have something offered which could never exist in the first place? If Adam was to have deity by any definition, why would Satan bother to offer to Adam and Eve,the opportunity to become "as gods"?


Yes, there is a promise in the Bible that we can become gods. But notice who made the promise. SATAN! And he is still making the same vain promise today. But the Lord God says,

Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. Is. 43:10

I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. Is.45:5

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did


Ormly, unless you believe Jesus Christ WAS/IS and will always be God, from the BEGINNING, who prayed with the Father in John 17:4 Glorify me WITH THINE OWN SELF WITHTHE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.


Unless you believe this to be true,

Verse 24: For thou lovedst *ME* before the foundation of the world.

Jesus prayer *before* HE went to Calvary,

That Jesus IS THE Christ, and we were Chosen in Him and Him alone before the foundation of the World...clarifies more fully God's eternal plan of bringing sons into Glory IN CHRIST ALONE.

Because you are preaching ANOTHER Jesus, not found in the scriptures is the beginning and end of this false doctrine Satan had blinded your eyes to hoping you will persuade yourself and others to climb over some other way.

When JESUS was on earth HE said...I AM THE DOOR. HE open the door to the very presence of the Father, through His shed Blood, also that BLOOD was presented at the alter in Heaven. Hebrews.

He has opened A NEW AND LIVING WAY, through the veil, that is to say His flesh, that at that same moment, the veil in Solomon's Temple was rent, signifying the way into the HolY of Holies has been opened. It is those who are washed in His Blood, and stand FORGIVEN IN CHRIST ALONE who have access to the Holy of Holies, to the Father Himself, who reveals the wisdom and Knowledge THAT IS IN CHRIST, to the Glory fo the Father.

Therefore: Your special revelations that contradict the very WORD who became flesh and dwelt among us,

1. Who now dwells in us,

2. Where only dwells the wisdom and knowledge of HIMSELF

3. Which is *CHRIST IN YOU* THE HOPE OF GLORY.

Is not the Jesus Christ YOU present.

Satan is a liar (who can treanform himself into an angel of light a preacher of righteousness), and has been one from the beginning, who would say and do anything to besmirch Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, His WORD, just as he did Eve from the beginning, who was a liar from the beginning.

Those here who DO KNOW the Lord ARE praying for you. PRIDE says, I don't need you or anyone. That is the epitome of PRIDE and you also know who is the father of pride?

No scripture is of any private interpretation.

The BODY of Christ is of ONE MIND and ONE ACCORD, ONE FAITH.

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did





 2007/9/3 14:10









 Re:

To Ormly,

Quote:
And this last verse offered from another translation, also altered by me, that will help us see that: after you have been "passionate" for a little while concerning the issue of becoming a son and all that means to the Father, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you. 1 Peter 5:10 (NASB77)



I know you have admitted to changing scripture, but do you think that if it was right it would have said what you said without you having to change it?

If you don't want to answer my last post it doesn't matter. As I said, the discussion has made me more aware that sufferings bring perfection. That Christ chose this way to perfect us, and it was not possible in the state and circumstances that Adam was in.
Jalim

 2007/9/3 15:01









 Re:

Quote:

Jalim wrote:
To Ormly,

Quote:
And this last verse offered from another translation, also altered by me, that will help us see that: after you have been "passionate" for a little while concerning the issue of becoming a son and all that means to the Father, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you. 1 Peter 5:10 (NASB77)



I know you have admitted to changing scripture, but do you think that if it was right it would have said what you said without you having to change it?

If you don't want to answer my last post it doesn't matter. As I said, the discussion has made me more aware that sufferings bring perfection. That Christ chose this way to perfect us, and it was not possible in the state and circumstances that Adam was in.
Jalim


Indeed, It what would have. However, not all here would have gotten it. Their insight is "no-sight". 8-) Because they are hung up in "redemption mode"; can't see beyond physical suffering as the means Father intended to accomplish His purpose. Physical pain was because of man's rebellion...sin. Pre-fall Adam was without sin. Now where does that leave you?

You cannot support the notion that the 'work of the cross' was something that was always in the mind of God regardless of Adam's trangression. However, "self-renunciation", the 'way of the Cross', was.

 2007/9/3 15:27









 Re:

In writing to a dear friend and Godly Pastor he advises the following:

Quote:
Ormly must not be taken seriously. Scripture is clear on how the genuine, born-again Christian is to deal with them – see Titus 3:10,11. Fromke was “holiness”; Jones was a liberal who denied the authority of Scripture. What more can be said.


Scripture (e.g., Romans 5:12-21; 1 Cor. 15:44-49) is abundantly clear regarding the status of the First Adam.

End of Quote

This is just one of many responses I've received back. ALL are in agreement Ormly's teaching is heresy.

Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/9/3 16:28









 Re:

You should see my e-mail, Katy and what they say about you.

 2007/9/3 16:31









 Re:

Ormly We are not saved by suffering, we are saved by the Risen life of Jesus Christ.

You have perverted the doctrine of the Fellowship of His sufferings to something never intended...evolution.

We are growing in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ, who would never in any revelation of Himself, say the things you are saying...that he was a left over last chance attempt.

It means nothing to me whe your e-mails say about me. AS I am not on trial here or are you. The TRUTH is on trial here...not you Ormly. Nothing was said about YOU, but what you are teaching and claim to have gotten from Oswald Chambers and Others.

One such reply was that Oswald Chambers NEVER taught such a thing, but anyone can take a false religion and use others words, even Oswald Chambers, to try to prove their point. As we see, even the Word of God Himself has been perverted by those who pick and choose, called the "verse snatchers", taking one verse and building a doctrine around it.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/9/3 16:41









 Re:

Katy, "No speekee nonsense"

 2007/9/3 16:42









 Re:

Ormly stating:

Quote:
"No speekee nonsense"



But then says:

Quote:
And this last verse offered from another translation, also altered by me, that will help us see that: after you have been "passionate" for a little while concerning the issue of becoming a son and all that means to the Father, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you. 1 Peter 5:10 (NASB77)




Of which came the reply:

Quote:
I know you have admitted to changing scripture, but do you think that if it was right it would have said what you said without you having to change it?





Quote:
"No speekee nonsense"



Really? Sounds like nonsense to me.

Ormly, the Word of God does NOT need to be manipulated by you or re-written.

Do you know who you are dealing with when you do this? Have you no fear of God at all? But you have shown us that you have indeed taken others teachings as well, and manipulated them into saying what you want them to say, without permission from the author.

Nothing wrong in putting up others writings, but leave their words intact, adn let others decide what they are saying....we don't need your intrepretation on others writings or God's Word.

The one who intreprets is the Holy Spirit, and Born Again Christians are equipped and Given the Spirit promising He will lead us into all truth, as HE is our teacher. To make yourself the Holy Spirit, claiming to have REVELATIONS outside of God's written Word, taking us to places we were never asked to go is no where to be found.
Not even Paul made such a claim.

So STOP speekee Nonsense!

The Fellowship of His Sufferings belong to and only to SONS to begin with.

Love in Christ
Katy-did





 2007/9/3 17:09









 Re:

Quote:
Katy-did wrote:
see Titus 3:10 ......



Quite a shame, that it took 4 threads that were started, that brought in this Adam's potential to be christ/human divinity/God's plan failed/Jesus as a second thought/Adam would have been Lord and King and so forth, for this verse to finally be brought out.

A fraction of the other attempts here -

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=19227&forum=36&start=70&viewmode=flat&order=0

I would like to think that love, mercy and hope is what caused all to go beyond what is written in Titus 3:10. But I wonder at the lack of responses at the same time.
Jesus said, we know a teacher and his teaching by their fruit.

If your treatment of all those here Ormly, is what your "revelation" has done for you or by any other part of what you believe that's made you treat others the way you have - that alone disproves your "doctrine" - Scripturally.

It 'is' sad to turn away from 'anyone'. But we will pray despite the request that we not pray.
Prayerfully, the way to handle heresy in this Camp will be respected and performed Scripturally by those who can see the danger in touching the very Foundation of our faith - our Christology.
When one can touch 'The Christ' and not be corrected, the Foundation itself will not hold whatever is built upon it. The Lamb is our Only Foundation - and if a person mixes that up - by reframing God Incarnate being God's Plan from before the foundation of the world - nothing else can come from or be built from that foundation and be sound.

Titus 3:10 should bring remorse from us - [i]with[/i] our obedience to it.
To "strive" beyond this point now, is to find ourselves in disobedience.
There is a time when contending does become 'contention'.

 2007/9/3 17:34









 Re:

Quote:
Quite a shame, that it took 4 threads that were started, that brought in this Adam's potential to be christ/human divinity/God's plan failed/[u]Jesus as a second thought[/u]/Adam would have been Lord and King and so forth, for this verse to finally be brought out.



If you feel you are right and I am wrong, why you do you think necessary to twist my words?

Did I ever infer, in anything I wrote, that Jesus was an after thought? Your dishonesty is a stench.

It isn't me standing in the need of prayer.




 2007/9/3 17:58





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