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 Concerning Adam

This a part of longer paper I am in the process of writing. I believe this much can shed some light on what I have already has been offered up. It is with that hope I submit this much. If you don't agree, that's alright. However, I am not looking for my words to be represented. Pleasee read carefully before kicking any of it out.
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Concerning Adam

The question has been many times asked, “Why did God create Adam if He knew Adam would fail”, which begs another question: “Fail at what”? Answering the second question will help explain the reason for asking the first one.

Let’s look at this passage from Ephesians picture that Paul readily saw and understood and, as a result of that revelation understanding, wrote all his letters with it as central to his perspective:

[i]“ But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,”[/i] Hebrews 2:9-11 (KJV)

Ok. We can see that ‘many sons for Father’ is the reason for creation and procreation would be the only means they would ever come into existence. We know that because “Procreation ‘R’ us”. He would not nor could not individually create us as did He the Angels, who have no redeemer nor can ever have one. Ask the question: “How many redeemers would be needed for each of God’s fallen creatures, if He created them all individually”? Moses was commanded to strike the ‘rock’ once. Never again is the ‘Rock’ to be smitten for mankind. We know that is true and we will one day see the single set of nail prints in the hands of Jesus. The Disciples saw them first on that day in the upper room. Only one set could and will ever be.

[i]”And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”[/i] Hebrews 6:5-6 (KJV)

Knowing that Adam would fail was certainly in the foreknowledge of the Father, however, Father still had to; was compelled to, follow through with His “soon to fail” creation while, at the same time, make provision for its redemption. Make no mistake about this: Adam was given humanity to its fullest degree/strength; that superhuman degree and no more, for a test Adam alone must pass. No one could come to his aid in this. It should be understood at this time that Adam was not divine in anyway. Though he came from Hand of Divinity; Divinity formed him from dust, there was not a speck of Divinity in him. Keep in mind he was NOT perfect. Only Divinity can ever perfect. However, Adam was “perfectly innocent”. Innocence that needed to be filled with “perfection”; the result of moral choices given him that would have accomplished the task, i.e., Transfiguration, the eating of the Tree of Life whereby he would have lived forever as the Father intended….Divinity would have happened.

Saying this does not mean procreation would have ceased. Procreation was still to be the means for birthing sons and bringing them into Glory; grooming them for Divine life.. Obviously the “new birth” or second birth would not have been needed had Adam succeeded in passing his test[s].

This not about self-righteous flesh accomplishing anything for or in God but flesh, by revelation, totally submitting to the will of the Father.

[i]”Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:”[/i]Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)

This spoken by Christ, the Word of God, not the Son of God. The Son of God was begotten in human flesh as “son of man” to become Transfigured for all in Glory to marvel at. This Transfiguration of Jesus was about Christ, the Logos, having been perfected in the life of Jesus, son of man, to be forever revealed in his now Glorified human flesh as the new Christ of Glory! A Glorified human body of Flesh and Bone forever.

However, before He was begotten in human flesh it was intended that the Christ of Glory inhabit a created body, that of Adam, son of God.

Interesting thing here is this passage that confirms this: [b]“Jesus was begotten of ….. the son of Adam, the son of God.”[/b] Luke 3:38

Another interesting thing is that as Adam was given to procreate sons, in Jesus sons are also to be "procreated" for the Father but by a new creation; a new life giving Spirit. John 20.22.

The benefit that Adam never enjoyed that success be his is the Pentecostal experience, the empowerment for success. How then should we expect to succeed without it? Jesus said: "Don't leave Jerusalem until you receive it". Think what would have happened if Jesus had not this power when in His wilderness testing. 40 days without food or drink and then the onslaught of the devil. Even with this enduement, consider His struggle that only His allegiance-Love to the Father could 'power' Him through. It was His love that enabled-released the Angels to minister to Him. Would it not have been the same for Adam? Can we not see that God would have come to Adam with Himself to smite the enemy and reward Adam with His own Divine Nature? Should it now not be the same for us who claim, who brag about having His Nature by virtue of the new birth in Christ Jesus?

But where is the Character this new Nature is supposed to produce in us? We say we have the Nature but know and realize little of the Character process by which we are to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. I say Jesus Christ because Adam failed to become the embodiment of that image.

 2007/9/2 11:47









 Re: Concerning Adam

From the other thread of yours.

Quote:
Quote:Katy-did wrote:
------------------------------------------
soooooo what you are saying then is in God's original plan (gone sour), All would then be saying

"That at the name of Adam I every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Adam I is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" ?????
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Ormly relied:

Thats right.




I can't even read what you've posted above here because you never moved from this quote and on two threads now - have pushed a heresy that demeans Creator God.
I wrote you a very long post - and it was in vain.

Rather than writing more - you should be praying and seeking the Lord of Glory.
We are praying for you.
Jesus Loves you - Jesus is The Truth and desires us to know Him - in Spirit and in Truth.

 2007/9/2 11:58









 Re: Concerning Adam

Quote:
Ormly wrote:
Christinyou,

You will never connect the dots using that thinking.


THINK! Jesus, "son of Adam" ......




JESUS was NOT "the son of Adam" !

The specific reason why HE was not born of the seed of Joseph but by the Holy Spirit - so as not to have Adam as his father.

 2007/9/2 12:06









 Re:

Quote:

HE_Reigns wrote:
From the other thread of yours.

Quote:
Quote:Katy-did wrote:
------------------------------------------
soooooo what you are saying then is in God's original plan (gone sour), All would then be saying

"That at the name of Adam I every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Adam I is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" ?????
-------------------------------------------
Ormly relied:

Thats right.




I can't even read what you've posted above here because you never moved from this quote and on two threads now - have pushed a heresy that demeans Creator God.
I wrote you a very long post - and it was in vain.

Rather than writing more - you should be praying and seeking the Lord of Glory.
We are praying for you.
Jesus Loves you - Jesus is The Truth and desires us to know Him - in Spirit and in Truth.



Your post only dealt with redemption and what the NT says about it.

What I am posting is not primarily about redemption. Redemption is only part of the story of the Work of Gross. I am doing my darndest to give you the rest of it. But you are stuck in redemption only mode. Try to extricate yourself from it and move in Christ.

Having said that I want you to show where Adam would NOT have become Lord had he obeyed God. Why would you or anyone, who say they read the bible for understanding, believe otherwise? I am forced also to believe that you believe God created Adam tso he could fail, "making" redemption necessary. Redemption wouldn't have been necessary had Adam not failed. Where is the heresy in that reasoning??!!

 2007/9/2 12:07









 Re:

Quote:
Ormly wrote:
Your post only dealt with redemption and what the NT says about it.



Not true Ormly. Not true.

Here is my post.
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=19227&forum=36&start=70&viewmode=flat&order=0


And here are the posts of Philip and Katy, trying to make sense with you on Adam.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=18716&forum=36&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0


GOD's plan did not fail, as you said on that first link.

GOD has always had just One Plan for mankind.


If you persist in saying "Plan A failed" - what you are saying about GOD is --- that HE is Not Omniscient and Omnipotent.

And if HIS Plans can fail --- we are all in a world of Mess!

He still loves you though.

 2007/9/2 12:22









 Re:

Quote:

HE_Reigns wrote:
Quote:
Ormly wrote:
Your post only dealt with redemption and what the NT says about it.



Not true Ormly. Not true.

Here is my post.
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=19227&forum=36&start=70&viewmode=flat&order=0


And here are the posts of Philip and Katy, trying to make sense with you on Adam.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=18716&forum=36&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0


GOD's plan did not fail, as you said on that first link.

GOD has always had just One Plan for mankind.


If you persist in saying "Plan A failed" - what you are saying about GOD is --- that HE is Not Omniscient and Omnipotent.

And if HIS Plans can fail --- we are all in a world of Mess!

He still loves you though.



Lets not ignorant in this, ok. Adam failed = plan "a". Jesus succeeded = [plan "b".

For you or anyone to say otherwise is to say God intended for Adam to fail. God never works like that. He always wants success, but it to be in Him and no one else. So the problem of understanding lies with you and your limited view of the gospel.
Dollars to donuts you haven't read a word I wrote. So lets you quit with condemning my understanbding of the facts, ok?

 2007/9/2 12:29









 Re:

Ormly, I don't like endless posts of arguing as you've done on every other thread.
I did not say "God intended for Adam to fail" in my post to you in that link.
God did not cause Adam to choose to sin. I need not explain again about "freewill" and so forth that I posted in that first link.
You are proving now that it is you that truly doesn't read the posts of others.
Philip tried and some others, but you are stuck with putting others down in every thread you have been on, as I also wrote before. Now that it finally has come out what you do believe - I think it's best for all of us to just pray.
You may want to keep your dollars and donuts for some rainy day, because I've read every post you've written. I've gone back as far as May of this year.
We're commanded to "Search" things out.
And to not judge without "a fair Hearing".
I take those commands seriously and in all respects.
No one has condemned you, but we are allowed Biblically to disagree with your interpretation of "Adam as Lord" and so forth, that is posted above in your talk with others and so forth.
We will agree to firmly disagree and leave you to your private revelation, if you insist.
We only have His Word - which should be "quoted" verbatum.
Keep His Love.

 2007/9/2 12:43









 Re:

Good, however, I will continue writing my heresy but will gladly repent in the freshlight of His daily revelation.


Please don't pray for me. I am choosee about who I want praying for me.

 2007/9/2 12:50









 Re:

Ormly, I don't just read posts - I'm also commanded to weep with those who weep. That to me means - I should look past words to what may be in the person's feelings. I feel for you in the sense of not sympathy - but feel in the sense of a pain in my heart - but not because of your 'doctrine' - but for a sense of the hurts you have been through in life. No one who hasn't been terribly hurt would say to a few people now - "don't pray for me". You hurt others because you are hurting or just are hurt.
I may seem hard as nails - but wept as I wrote that long one yesterday - and feel we are to never give any corrective words unless we are brought to tears first. If we don't feel that compassion toward the ones we may come in conflict with - we are not like Him in any regard. I wouldn't mind if you prayed for me at all. Thank you if you will. In Jesus Name.

 2007/9/2 13:02









 Re:

Quote:

HE_Reigns wrote:
Ormly, I don't just read posts - I'm also commanded to weep with those who weep. That to me means - I should look past words to what may be in the person's feelings. I feel for you in the sense of not sympathy - but feel in the sense of a pain in my heart - but not because of your 'doctrine' - but for a sense of the hurts you have been through in life. No one who hasn't been terribly hurt would say to a few people now - "don't pray for me". You hurt others because you are hurting or just are hurt.
I may seem hard as nails - but wept as I wrote that long one yesterday - and feel we are to never give any corrective words unless we are brought to tears first. If we don't feel that compassion toward the ones we may come in conflict with - we are not like Him in any regard. I wouldn't mind if you prayed for me at all. Thank you if you will. In Jesus Name.




If this is all you purpose to do, please spare me your tears, sympathies, brokenheartedness and otherwise, off track "bawlderdash". And I don't want your prayers because I am fussy [I said choosee at first, but you may not have been paying attention] about who it is that have praying for me.

This is my last to you unless you have something of substance to say with regards to the my thread topic..

Can you hear me?

 2007/9/2 13:17





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