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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do babies of unbelievers go to heaven if they die?

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ZealForTruth
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 22


 Do babies of unbelievers go to heaven if they die?

I have often wondered about this and I have to be honest, wouldn't really know how to answer this question if it came up other than the usual "trust in God, He is just" ;)

The way I have heard it explained that somewhat makes sense is as follows:

"1 Corinthians 7:13  And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14  For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

Therefore, if at least ONE of the parents is christian, the children (before reaching maturity to decide for themselves) are santified by God. And if they die as young children, they go to heaven.

But what about if neither of the parents were christian? Does that mean that a baby will go to hell? Seems kinda unfair...

When responding, please use scriptural references, since that is what we as christians are to base our beliefs upon, and not on other people's opinions which we think make sense.

Blessings in Christ!

 2007/9/1 18:10Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: Do babies of unbelievers go to heaven if they die?

This issue used to trouble me, too.
I always wondered what about all those
babies who are aborted, what happens to
their souls?? God has assured me in the
Spirit that they are "innocents" and He
takes them home to heaven.


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2007/9/1 18:34Profile









 Re: Do babies of unbelievers go to heaven if they die?

The only definite scripture I can find on this subjectis in 1Kings 14. However it speaks of a child; he may not have been a baby.

Jereboam's wife went to the prophet Ahijah when her son was ill, to find out if the child would live or die.

"12 Arise thou therefore, get thee to thine own house: and when thy feet enter into the city, the child shall die.
13 And all Israel shall mourn for him, and bury him: for he only of Jeroboam shall come to the grave, [b]because in him there is found some good thing toward the LORD God of Israel[/b] in the house of Jeroboam."

God knows the heart. Our response to Him is spiritual not intellectual, so I see no reason why such a child can't respond to Him long before they can understand the words of the Gospel, or even before they can speak.

Blessings

jeannette

 2007/9/1 19:29









 Re: Do babies of unbelievers go to heaven if they die?

ZealForTruth said,

Quote:
But what about if neither of the parents were christian? Does that mean that a baby will go to hell? Seems kinda unfair...



Blessings Brother,

I think the best way you can sort this one out is to sit down in a quiet room with your Bible, flip through the pages of Matthew, Chapters 18 and 19, and read all the scriptures where Jesus speaks of "children", and "little ones".

Close your eyes and meditate upon His words. Then ask Him in prayer what He will do with infants and children (Christian or not) who die prematurely.

I imagine those large, calloused, pierced carpenter's hands would hold a baby, any baby, more gently and carefully than any mother could.

 2007/9/1 19:46
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re: Do babies of unbelievers go to heaven if they die?

I have heard it explained from J. Vernon McGee about how the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believer:
The family may enjoy the benefits that come from a christian man or woman, the fruits of the spirit, but that does not necessarily mean that the non-believers are saved, of course.

It seems that the view that the children are sanctified by the christian is "salvation by association" or somthing to that effect, which is not biblical, therefore it seems that is is also not biblical to believe that children without godly influence will be sent to hell.

 2007/9/1 20:27Profile
jordanamo
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397


 Re: Do babies of unbelievers go to heaven if they die?

Of course.

Quote:

When responding, please use scriptural references


Not necessary.

Quote:
since that is what we as christians are to base our beliefs upon, and not on other people's opinions which we think make sense.


Not all things are detailed out word for word in the Bible. Anyone could give a proof text to support their view concerning this, and it would get us no where. (This includes most other topics really.) For example, concerning salvation.. one could argue that the child that dies without having "called upon the name of the Lord" has not been saved (quoting that passage in Romans as a proof text for their view), and thus cannot walk into Heaven. I think that is an erroneous view of salvation and the mercies of God. And this is essentially why I refuse to give you your scripture. It is not enough, it won't ever be. This I appeal to your reason, to your reading of the God of the Bible and his dealings with Man, and specifically to his love expressed to the Children through Jesus. It should be common sense, but when people take passages too literally and not in context, it leads to such erroneous views as babies going to Hell. Nonsense. Absolutely.

 2007/9/1 22:53Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

If there were an all-convincing verse someone would have posted it by now. However, there are a couple of verses that I expected to see posted...

[color=0033FF]And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. (2Samuel 12:22-23 KJVS)

“Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 18:10 NKJV)[/color]

The latter reference is particularly interesting. Biblically, a persons' "angel" often represents the person themselves, as the angel of the Lord, or Christ's angel in the book of the Revelation. This latter verse shows the 'children's angels' with unhindered access to God.

It is true that the prime reference here is to "one of these little ones who believe in Me" (Matt 18:6) but the concept of a child seeing the 'face of God' may be wider than this. The word for chld here presumes an infant so we are not talking about someone who could give you a detailed explanation of 'justification by faith' but just simple trust.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/9/2 2:57Profile
ZealForTruth
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 22


 Re:

Quote:
Not all things are detailed out word for word in the Bible. Anyone could give a proof text to support their view concerning this, and it would get us no where. (This includes most other topics really.)



True, but then why do we bother supporting any of our other beliefs with scriptures, since there is a possibility that those were taken out of context as well?

I believe that we SHOULD support our beliefs with scriptures as much as it is possible, and that is why a discussion like this on this forum is good to help us see if it's out of context. And even when it is not possible because the Bible doesn't talk about something directly, sometimes various verses point in a general direction that can help us make a right decision on what God really wants.

For example I have not yet found a verse in the Bible that speaks explicitly against masturbation, but there are many other numerous verses that speaks against lusting with the eyes which fuels the desire to masturbate.

Basically what I meant by that is I'm kind of tired of hearing, well, I feel this way, and Nooooo, that really can't be, I mean, think about it, does that really sound like God to you?!....without any scriptural backings because, sincerely, who really cares about how one person or another feels or thinks about something? The bible says "feelings are deceptive" so I would rather believe something that I can relate to the Bible supported with verses or not make a conclusion about something at all.

Because if I look at my feelings, I wouldn't like to believe that King David whose armies sawed people (which included children by the way) to death and chopped them with axes and cooked them in brick kilns (2 Samuel 12:31) should be called "a man after God's heart", but hey, lo and behold! It also "doesn't sound like God to me" when God got angry at Saul for not killing every last being of a nation (which again included children and babies) but hey! guess what the Bible shows us?

Okay, I'm done my little rant.....

 2007/9/2 5:13Profile









 Re:

Although my response would not be considered 'right' humanistically speaking, the following thoughts always come to mind when I think of the question about where babies go, however my mind is by no means made up:


1) Romans 6:23 - [b]For the wages of sin is death[/b]; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

2) Romans 5:18 - [b]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation[/b]; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

3) 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 - [b]For since by man came death[/b], by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22[b]For as in Adam all die[/b], even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


Paul tells us that '...as in Adam all die...' Any man born of Adam (meaning everyone) dies. Why do we die? Because of sin; '...the wages of sin is death...'. I believe we have all inherited a sin nature from Adam, because of Adam's original sin. This is why everyone who is born will die. Death only came into the world as a consequence of sin.

So if a baby is not a sinner through Adam, then surely they wouldn't die? If a little child was without sin, then that child would not die.

Although just babies, they still have a sin nature, as inherited from Adam. A sin nature which must be paid for.


I do understand, though, that it is very dangerous ground to put into question what God would do in certain situations. God is God, and He alone can, and will, act as He pleases. Who are we to question why the one and only, true, living and Holy God has done something?

 2007/9/2 8:59









 Re:

Quote:

ZealForTruth wrote:
Quote:
Not all things are detailed out word for word in the Bible. Anyone could give a proof text to support their view concerning this, and it would get us no where. (This includes most other topics really.)



True, but then why do we bother supporting any of our other beliefs with scriptures, since there is a possibility that those were taken out of context as well?

I believe that we SHOULD support our beliefs with scriptures as much as it is possible, and that is why a discussion like this on this forum is good to help us see if it's out of context. And even when it is not possible because the Bible doesn't doesn't mention something specifically, sometimes various verses point in a general direction that can help us make a right decision on what God really wants.

For example I have not yet found a verse in the Bible that speaks explicitly against masturbation, but there are many other numerous verses that speaks against lusting with the eyes which fuels the desire to masturbate.

Basically what I meant by that is I'm kind of tired of hearing, well, I feel this way, and Nooooo, that's really can't be, I mean, think about it, does that really sound like God to you?!....without any scriptural backings because, sincerely, who really cares about how one person or another feels or thinks about something? The bible says "feelings are deceptive" so I would rather believe something that I can relate to the Bible supported with verses or not make a conclusion about something at all.

Because if I look at my feelings, I wouldn't like to believe that King David whose armies sawed people (which included children by the way) to death and chopped them with axes and cooked them in brick kilns (2 Samuel 12:31) should be called "a man after God's heart", but hey, lo and behold! It also "doesn't sound like God to me" when God got angry at Saul for not killing every last being of a nation (which again included children and babies) but hey! guess what the Bible shows us?

Okay, I'm done my little rant.....




Amen.

 2007/9/2 9:01





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