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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why is this a true statement, though not literally found in the Bible?

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 Re:

No comprendi, Katy

 2007/8/30 14:52
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

what am i missing? what is the question here? i have read this thread twice...and either i miss it or just dont get it... :-(


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/8/30 14:54Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re: Why is this a true statement, though not literally found in the Bible?

Ormly wrote:

Quote:
God wants a vast family of Son's who will be just like Him but of flesh and bone and the program of producing them can only be by pro-creation.



Never in my born days have I ever read or heard of this concept - and I am 60 years old! I have attended Bible School, attended church all my life, studied the Scriptures, read a lot, including [i]Christianity Today[/i] magazine for 25 years plus other denominational literature and have never read anything like this.

Is this concept something you dreamt about one night when you had a nightmare?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/8/30 15:46Profile









 Re: Why is this a true statement, though not literally found in the Bible?

How do we know what God 'wants'?

 2007/8/30 16:03









 Re:

Quote:

ginnyrose wrote:
Ormly wrote:
Quote:
God wants a vast family of Son's who will be just like Him but of flesh and bone and the program of producing them can only be by pro-creation.



Never in my born days have I ever read or heard of this concept - and I am 60 years old! I have attended Bible School, attended church all my life, studied the Scriptures, read a lot, including [i]Christianity Today[/i] magazine for 25 years plus other denominational literature and have never read anything like this.

Is this concept something you dreamt about one night when you had a nightmare?

ginnyrose



LOL!! Nope. It's all there. You just have to get out of the "redemption" only mode when viewing the Cross. There is two manifestations of Cross: The "Work" and the 'Way". The "Way" came first and when rejected, by Adam, made necessary the "Work" of the Cross by the death of Jesus. The "Way" of the Cross is given to those who, by faith, have embraced His death as their own.

If your answer to why God created Adam was simply for His glory, as most in redemption only mode folk believe, then you will stay in that state and be forced to continue in a sub-normal Christian experience not intended by God. Think more about why God created Adam; what was Adam to become?

 2007/8/30 16:46









 Re:

Quote:

Compliments wrote:
How do we know what God 'wants'?



That's easy, though impossible to work out; requiring the new birth and Pentecost for success. What He wants is for you to become a son, with His Character well expressed by you.

 2007/8/30 16:52









 Re: Why is this a true statement, though not literally found in the Bible?

Ormly asked

Quote:
God wants a vast family of Son's who will be just like Him but of flesh and bone and the program of producing them can only be by pro-creation.



Ormly, you err in your materialistic interpretation of scripture. True, our Lord created us from inanimate matter. But the Spirit was breathed into us and, upon our death, the Spirit will return to Him.

And those who die and are renewed by fire in the Baptism of the Spirit (symbolised by immersion and raising out of water) will live on for eternity long after the physical body returns to dust.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (GEN 2:7)

After death and judgement, those left in His presence will not necessarily be flesh and blood,

"For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven." (MAR 12:25)

As to the glorified nature of our new, perfected bodies after death, John says,

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and [i]it doth not yet appear what we shall be:[/i] but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." (I JOHN 3:2)

As to the corruption of the physical body and the perfection of the spiritual body, Paul posits,

"[i]It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. [b]There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.[/b][/i] And so it is written, [i][b]The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.[/i][/b]" (I COR 15:42-44)

For those who believe we will live in the presence of Almighty God for all eternity in our present physical bodies,

"[i]For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire,[/i] even a jealous God." (DEU 4:24)

"[i]And this word,[/i] Yet once more, [i]signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.[/i] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire." (HEB 12:27-29)

And what, pray tell, will survive of the flesh, the world, and the devil in the presence of the Lord God?

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." (II PET 3:10)

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever... And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (REV 20:10-15)

The scriptual evidence is irrefutable: the Lord, is Spirit, and has made Man in His Image. Those who walk in His Spirit will return to Him in joy. All else but silver and gold will burn as chaff before His presence.

Ormly also said
Quote:
You know, Katy, if you weren't so laughable I could be offended. However, I refuse to let myself be so offended. I will do my utmost to view your incredulity and unlearned remarks as an instrument of righteousness whereby I renounce my "self" and all that it solicits me to say to you. Thank you



and...

Quote:
She doesn't know what she is talking about. She has no clue concerning the scriptures. Her "endless searching" means she reviewed a few her comic books and stumbled on something the which was on her level of comprehension. There is no discernment in her for understanding even the most elementary teachings of Jesus Christ and the Father.



Watch your tongue! And get your hands off your sister's throat! You will answer for every venomous word you've spat:

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." (MATT 12:36)

"Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit. Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son... Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God." (PSA 50:19-20)

"The north wind driveth away rain: so doth an angry countenance a backbiting tongue." (PRO 25:23)

"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain... Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue [is] a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell... " (JAM 1:26, 3:5-6)

 2007/8/30 18:28









 Re:

:roll:

 2007/8/30 18:41









 Re:

Quote:
LOL!! Nope. It's all there. You just have to get out of the "redemption" only mode when viewing the Cross. There is two manifestations of Cross: The "Work" and the 'Way". The "Way" came first and when rejected, by Adam, made necessary the "Work" of the Cross by the death of Jesus. The "Way" of the Cross is given to those who, by faith, have embraced His death as their own.



Ormly, I believe what you are saying here is, "The Work of the Cross" is Jesus Christ's alone for our redemption, correct?

And then the "Way of the Cross" would be our life being sanctified IN CHRIST through that very same Cross.

But you must also understand sanctification is still *the WORK of Christ* in you... We are HIS workmanship.

"He who has begun a good work will continue it until the Day of Jesus Christ". Who is HE that we are talking about here? The same Jesus...the Author and Finisher of our faith.

Paul says in Corinthiams we are sanctified by faith as well, so justification is by faith, sanctification is by faith.

2nd Peter also confirms this stating, BY FAITH we are partakers of His divine nature.

The Just (those justified by His blood) shall continue to live by faith.

What more could there possibly be that is greater than the story of our Redemption.

You seem to suggest those who only see this are seeing a lower element of their eternal existance.

Have you seen more then this, "MORE" beyond our eternal life? More then Redemption which includes the WHOLE of our life in Christ. SAlvation is a continuing operation as we are being changed from Glory to Glory, even by the Spirit of the Lord. We cannot change ourselves from Glory to Glory, it's the spirit of the Lord who is doing the changing, every minute of every day.


On another thought you brought up, relating to this same subject on the Firstfruits forum:


The Tree of Life, must now in someway be the tree Jesus Christ was Crucified on,( Deut 21:23 Galatians 3:13) for there is no other way to eternal life then through Christ Crucified.... So maybe in some way the Tree of Life is connected and has always been connected to Jesus Christ, who created all things for Himself to begin with. There are scriptures in Revelation that still refer to the Tree of Life...one being to the Church of Ephesus Rev 2:7. And more scripture in Rev 22 concerning the Tree of Life, in the NEW Heaven and New Earth...with nothing there to make a lie or to deceive.

More to think about.

Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/8/30 18:53









 Re:

Quote:
God wants a vast family of Son's who will be just like Him but of flesh and bone and the program of producing them can only be by pro-creation



Ormly, I truly am trying to understand what you are saying. Yes, after Adam and Eve sinned, they were to pro-create, and Adam didn't even KNOW Eve intil after they sinned. So here we do have pro-creation.

The story of Redemption IS God taking this pro-created human, and offering eternal Sonship through our Lord Jesus Christ, who was and is and will always be, God who became flesh, tasted death for us, and gave us LIFE through Him, thus becoming to those who receive Him, sons of God.

When God created the Angels, each individual angel was created by God, not through any pro-creation among the angels themselves. However, we are different than the angels, having multiplied through god's plan of procreation among ourselves, and Sonship is given only to those who receive Him. We are already Sons of God at our new Birth. We don't become a son through our own effort by the "Way" of the Cross. Your idea seeming to say we are not son's yet, but are WORKING at becoming sons. Many scripture say otherwise. 1st John stating NOW we are the sons of God. Our sonship has already been sealed by the Holy Spirit. And now we are a New Creation, having been quickened by the Risen Christ. Now we are waiting to see Him as He is, for we shall be like Him. We are now Bone of His Bone and Flesh of His Flesh, so there is the flesh and bone part you are looking for. Ephesians 5

Love in Christ
Katy-did

PS: Also Ephesians states HE will present the Church to Himself, Ephesians 5:25-33, a Glorious Church without spot or wrinkle. HE must know what He is doing. We surrender to the Works of HIS hands, working out what He first works in.

 2007/8/30 19:38





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