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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why is this a true statement, though not literally found in the Bible?

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 Re:

Hi Krispy!

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
[b]John 1:12[/b] [i]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.[/i]

I think it needs to be said we are not the sons of God until we are born again.




But even then it would be by His Nature only, certainly not His Character that must be taught and learned which makes the son [child of God], a son.

Quote:
Is there any place in the Bible that refers to anyone as being a child of God, or son of God, without them first walking in a relationship with God?

Krispy



[i]"But as many as received him, *instantly became His children and to them, He gave power [b]to become sons[/b] of God, even to them that believe on his name"[/i] John 1:12 (KJV) And this by "self-renounciating", the "way of the cross", which is the Character builder. Certainly, this is a process, a painful one for most, eh?

*Orm's translation.

 2007/8/30 12:06









 Re:

Quote:

MSeaman wrote:
Quote:
But they make that decision before being born ... at least once, can they?



can you put that in "for dummies" terms?



I am sorry. It should have read: But they CAN"T make that decision before being born ... at least once, can they? [I do that alot so becareful] :-(

 2007/8/30 12:09
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re:

ah, yes that makes sense. perhaps it's a matter of training? if a child is trained correctly in the Lord, he or she will choose to follow? of course every person enters this world as a matter of procreation too, so at least in the physical sense, I would say your statement is true.


_________________
Melissa

 2007/8/30 12:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:

MSeaman wrote:
ah, yes that makes sense. perhaps it's a matter of training? if a child is trained correctly in the Lord, he or she will choose to follow? of course every person enters this world as a matter of procreation too, so at least in the physical sense, I would say your statement is true.



A couple of things for undertsanding: The child is son, His nature is of you. That doesn't change.

This is the natural I speak of yet it can apply to the spiritual, ok? ....moving on:

I am sure that you want your son to be just like you, in goodness/righteousness. It is therefore in that you train him to be. This is called character building. Character predicated upon the strength of your own character that a child be raised up to be a son trained in your character to become a respentative of your likeness..... No! More than that! He is you! Because he was obedient to your tutor-ship. "He learned obedience by the things he suffered."

And all this from the natural that we can readily apply it to the Spiritual when we are "born again". Now it is you and me who become the children of God, with His Nature to be tutored by the Holy Ghost in the ways of the Father; Character building in us as children who, in the end, become the son's who will be just like our Heavenly Father.

I hope that is a help :-)

 2007/8/30 12:41









 Re:

After endless searching I have found where Ormly is coming up with this doctrine called Armstrongism.

Robert Schmid teaches this who teaches Herbert W Armstrong, or Armstrongism.

That Jesus was a created being as was Adam I,
and rejects the doctrine of the Trinity, and so much more.

Well, before getting carried away into what you don't know you are getting carried away into, please look up on line Robert Schmid and Herbert W. Armstrong.

Then with your Eyes completely opened, you can continue to agree or disagree with Ormly's version of Salvation by ?????.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/8/30 12:48
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
After endless searching I have found where Ormly is coming up with this doctrine called Armstrongism.

Robert Schmid teaches this who teaches Herbert W Armstrong, or Armstrongism.

That Jesus was a created being as was Adam I,
and rejects the doctrine of the Trinity, and so much more.

Well, before getting carried away into what you don't know you are getting carried away into, please look up on line Robert Schmid and Herbert W. Armstrong.

Then with your Eyes completely opened, you can continue to agree or disagree with Ormly's version of Salvation by ?????.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did



Ormly, is this what you are talking about or something else?


_________________
Melissa

 2007/8/30 12:52Profile









 Re:

You know, Katy, if you weren't so laughable I could be offended. However, I refuse to let myself be so offended. I will do my utmost to view your incredulity and unlearned remarks as an instrument of righteousness whereby I renounce my "self" and all that it solicits me to say to you. Thank you

 2007/8/30 13:00









 Re:

Quote:

MSeaman wrote:
Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
After endless searching I have found where Ormly is coming up with this doctrine called Armstrongism.

Robert Schmid teaches this who teaches Herbert W Armstrong, or Armstrongism.

That Jesus was a created being as was Adam I,
and rejects the doctrine of the Trinity, and so much more.

Well, before getting carried away into what you don't know you are getting carried away into, please look up on line Robert Schmid and Herbert W. Armstrong.

Then with your Eyes completely opened, you can continue to agree or disagree with Ormly's version of Salvation by ?????.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did



Ormly, is this what you are talking about or something else?




Indeed, no!

She doesn't know what she is talking about. She has no clue concerning the scriptures. Her "endless searching" means she reviewed a few her comic books and stumbled on something the which was on her level of comprehension. There is no discernment in her for understanding even the most elementary teachings of Jesus Christ and the Father.

Armstrongism is a offshoot cult of "British Israelism". I have been given to believe that they have repented back at the home office in California; have forsaken Herbert W's doctrine for the simple gospel of Grace..

 2007/8/30 13:08
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Indeed, no!

She doesn't know what she is talking about. She has no clue concerning the scriptures. ]Her "endless searching" means she reviewed a few comic books and stumbled on something the which was on her level of comprehension. There is no discernment in her for understanding even the most elementary teachings of Jesus Christ and the Father.

Armstrongism is a offshoot cult of "British Israelism". I have been given to believe that they have repented back at the home office in California; have forsaken Herbert W's doctrine for the simple gospel of Grace..



okay, it didn't sound to me like that is what you meant. Thanks for the clarification. I'll think more on the other post you made to me and comment again.


_________________
Melissa

 2007/8/30 13:11Profile









 Re:

Ormly it's Robert Schmid who teaches much of what you are saying, becoming sons of God through pro-creation. I put it in my search engine and walla, Robert Schmid and Herbert Armstrong came to the rescue. Armstrongism is more than thinking Britan is one of the tribes of Israel.

Anyway, You think god wants another family of sons of God unlike what we are, but of flesh and bone.

You posted in another Firstfruits, that the first Adam 1 was to be obedient thus securing his transfiguration, and in doing so there would be no need for the second adam..who is Christ. That at Adam 1's transfiguration he would be infact Christ, the son of God,(the one who was originally to be the Son of God, but messed up, God having to start over again creating another adam (Armstrongism) Jesus, who doesn't need to pro-create with anyone to bring in sons of Glory. But the Original Adam would have procreating with Eve, who I'm assuming her obedience too would have to take place and therefore after they were both transfigured, they would then pro-create and produce little baby sons of God for God....these children of flesh and bone god beings.

And you believe God is still looking for a way to bring these flesh and bone sons of god into existance? So, is this what YOU want to be? One of those OTHER sons of god?

Katy-Did

THis conversation began with Jesus - Firstfruits, and one myst go back and read ALL there is there in understand what Ormly is asking.

One must also understand ALL of what Robert Schmid and Herbert Armstrong taught rejecting the Trinity, and that Jesus was a created being as was Adam 1. The doctrine is more than them thinking Britian was a lost tribe, but infact a mixture of Mormon, JW and a hodge - podge of several many concepts.

 2007/8/30 14:48





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