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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "A Christian will sin every day until we are perfected in heaven"

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 Re: "A Christian will sin every day until we are perfected in heaven"

To answer the original post:

[i]Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Romans 7:1-25)[/i]

In our flesh dwells the law of sin, and this law will dwell in our flesh as a part of our fallen nature until the day of glorification. Notice Paul's conclusion of the whole chapter (which proves this applies not only to Pharisees, but to all Christians, including Paul himself); he says, "So then, with the mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin". Then he says "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in CHRIST".

According to the law of God (of Moses), we sin all the time, but according to the law of the Spirit of Christ, we can walk in freedom and victory with pure consciences before God, knowing that grace empowers us to obey its requirements, and that if we do stumble and sin, grace enables us to be forgiven, so long as we truly abide in Christ and do those things that are acceptable to Him in faith. So according to the law of the Spirit, we don't sin all the time, for we walk in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. The law of Moses in fulfilled in Christ and abolished in us by His death, and its requirements have no more hold. Now we are set free to serve God in simplicity of love.

More scripture:

[i]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
(Galatians 5:16-17)

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(1 John 1:8)

And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
(1 Peter 4:8)[/i]

The problem comes in when we view sin merely as an act of the will rather than as a shortcoming against the glory of God. Sin is not only an act of the will voluntarily committed, as Paul says in Romans 7 "To will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I find not". His will was against sin, but the law of sin dwelling within his members, in his flesh, didn't let him walk in perfect sinlessness. Sin is a law in our flesh, and sin is coming short of the glory of God, not just a conscious act of the will to disobey against known light. Because of this, we have a shortcoming within us every day, but we don't voluntarily sin against known light every day.

 2007/8/29 12:52
HopePurifies
Member



Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Oh ok. From your response here and in the other thread, I see your intent.
No Krispy, of course your not the only one to struggle against pride. :-) However, I would like to encourage you by letting you know that there is hope for those of us who do. We have to take up our cross DAILY.
Jesus can give us the grace to make us completely holy.
The law and the prophets hangs on "love your God with all your heart and the second like it, love your neighbor as yourself" not the other way around. Do you have faith that Jesus's death and resurrection can bring us to obedience to the simple commands God requires of us? (rhetorical question for both you and me)


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Melanie

 2007/8/29 13:29Profile









 Re:

[color=000033]Amen brother. Pride is one of our worst enemies, Lust is another. If we can look back to a point and time where we was born again, and we ask HIM not only to be our savior but LORD of our life, we will be able to see without any doubt we have become a new creation. Perfection no, but we will see changes, changes that we could not do without HIM, and the reason we do see those changes now is because HE gives us the will to be pleasing to HIM. When we look back on our life after we are buried with HIM in baptism and raised again to walk in newness of life and if we don't see those things that we normally would not see and we see things we do are different now and they line up more with HIS WORD and on the flip side of that do thing, we can see don't do's that we use to do and we don't do anymore, because they are not pleasing to HIM. We should get worried and concerned if we don't see those changes and be concerned in the fact that we might hear "depart from me I never knew you". I think we must examine ourselves.[/color] 8-)

 2007/8/29 13:39









 Re: "A Christian will sin every day until we are perfected in heaven"

The question is: Can you be perfect in this life and still sin?

 2007/8/29 14:19









 Re:

Quote:

Compliments wrote:
The question is: Can you be perfect in this life and still sin?



[color=00GG99]moe_mac wrote:
The question to me is "am I born again".
Am I a new creation in Christ Jesus!!!
Not, how much do I sin.
Not, am I completely sinless in my actions,
but do I sin less because HE lives in me.
In my heart does His Spirit prompt me to be to sin less and to be more pleasing to HIM!!!
To think less about the pleasures of the world and more about what He desires for me.
If we knew His plan and the outcome of them for our life. It would be exactly what we would choose for ourselves.[/color]

 2007/8/29 19:22









 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
It is the Christ in you that is Perfect and that is who the Father see's when he looks at His children in Christ.

This is the truth of scripture, not a cult teaching.

Perfect before the Father, In Christ: Phillip



Never mind what the Father sees, what do others see that they should be drawn to Christ; that they should recognize their need and Him to be the only one who can fill it?

 2007/8/30 9:40
Isaiah64
Member



Joined: 2006/9/27
Posts: 85


 Re:

To all those who believe that Romans 7:14-25 is speaking of a regenerate man, please see this article:
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19065&forum=36&4]Understanding Romans 7[/url]
It was NOT written by someone who believes in Christian perfection.
Remember brothers and sisters, we need to examine passages of Scripture by their CONTEXT and not by our own experiences.

 2007/8/30 10:18Profile









 Re:

Someone elseware remarked:

"That's interesting. Giving back what God has given to us.

The father’s first priority was us, the Sons first priority was the father, then us.

God gives us spirit, soul and a body and wants us to develop them, then give them back to him to serve with for his purpose. Not keep them undeveloped or use them for our purpose".

...to which I replied:

Indeed, that is it, in capsule form. Sort of sets apart the simply saved from the *born again, doesn’t it?

We must understand that it was Father's intent from the beginning, starting with Adam, to "groom" many son's and bring them to divine Glory.. "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.[Passion] Hebrews 2:10 (KJV)

The struggle would always be, to some degree, from "self's" unwillingness to participate, regardless of one’s spiritual progress, that is, our supernatural enablement for becoming a son. This can be seen by Adam's failure in the garden and the success of the man, Jesus in the wilderness.
Jesus' willingness was because of His "cultivated" intimacy with the Father. He “learned obedience”. As a result of His allegiance and by His love to the Father, "being full of Grace and Truth" was ‘actualized’ within Him and by this, His life, He overcame the enemy. In other words, and as how that might apply to us is, when we are born again, what was in Jesus, enabling Him to be Holy and perfecting Him, is now IN us to enable us to perform righteously UNTO the Father in all things; to make us holy. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 (KJV) How can that be possible if He did not give us the enablement? Ah, what marvelous things because of the "work" of the Cross. It was for the creation of saints to be perfected by the “way of the Cross”; “self-renouncication.”

*Those who have a revelation of Jesus Christ..

 2007/8/30 10:40
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Is sanctification a process or an event? In my Christian experience it has been a process -if someone else has had an event where they gave up sin forever, praise the Lord!

I haven't recieved the same dispensation, but I am joyfully living every day with the Lord, overcoming my sin one day at a time by Grace.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/8/30 11:27Profile









 Re:

Quote:

iansmith wrote:
Is sanctification a process or an event? In my Christian experience it has been a process -if someone else has had an event where they gave up sin forever, praise the Lord!

I haven't recieved the same dispensation, but I am joyfully living every day with the Lord, overcoming my sin one day at a time by Grace.



"To be rid of Self is to have the heart bare to God" ..... George MacDonald


 2007/8/30 11:52





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