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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "A Christian will sin every day until we are perfected in heaven"

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BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 "A Christian will sin every day until we are perfected in heaven"

First off, I do not want this thread to be an argument about "sinless perfection" etc. like what went around a few weeks ago.

Secondly, I think the main thrust of this endless argument between Christian is misunderstanding of the "victorious life". Holiness people think the "not yet" people promote grace regardless; the "not yet" camp think Holiness camp teaches justification by sanctification or "sinless perfection", not drawing the proper distinction between sinless perfection and what Wesley calls Christian perfection. Except for cults, emergents, and fringe groups, not many people believe either of the extremes commonly accused.

So, that being said, I want SCRIPTURE, not your personal dissertation, that teaches we as Christians will "with knowledge" sin every day until he returns, even though it is against our will.


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Denver McDaniel

 2007/8/28 23:49Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: "A Christian will sin every day until we are perfected in heaven"

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/8/29 0:05Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Phl 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye
be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Jam 1:4 But let patience have [her] perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

How in the world can we be perfect? Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

It is the Christ in you that is Perfect and that is who the Father see's when he looks at His children in Christ.

This is the truth of scripture, not a cult teaching.

Perfect before the Father, In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/8/29 2:27Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It is the Christ in you that is Perfect and that is who the Father see's when he looks at His children in Christ.

This is the truth of scripture, not a cult teaching.



Amen... thats it in a nutshell.

Krispy

 2007/8/29 7:06









 Re:

PS-

I would like to see scripture too, only in context if that is not to much to ask...

In Christ - Jim

 2007/8/29 8:33









 Re:

Jim, not sure what you're asking scripture to show. To proove that we can reach perfection in this life, or that our flesh will always be a battleground and our perfection is in Christ?

Please clarify... cuz it seems to me there has been a lot of scripture thrown into this discussion.

I could quote the entire New Testament in a post, and someone will still say "show me some scripture".

Krispy

 2007/8/29 8:47
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re: "A Christian will sin every day until we are perfected in heaven"

Just read the book of 1 John honestly (and do some research on 1:8).

1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [Commandments such as Matthew 5:48, "Therefore be perfect as your Father in heaven in perfect."]

[b]2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.[/b]

2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

[b]2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.[/b]

3:4-9 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

[b]4:17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.[/b]

4:21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

[b]5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.[/b]

ect, ect.


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Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/8/29 9:22Profile









 Re:

Do you sin, Nile?

Krispy

 2007/8/29 9:36
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Do you sin, Nile?

Krispy



The short answer: [b]NO!!![/b]

I'll answer possible refinements of the question for clariy.

1. Are you sinning right now?
No. =)

2. Do you plan on sinning again?
No.

3. Do you anticipate sinning again?
No.

4. Is there any commandment of God that you know you do not keep?
No.

5. Do you sin every day?
No.

6. Is your conscience perfectly pure?
Yes.

7. Have you repented of all known sin and conformed your life to the revelation give to you?
Yes.

8. Have you sinned in the past?
Yes.

9. Have you sinned in the past month?
Yes I have unfortunately. This is not a light matter. Within the past month I have rebelled against God and fallen from Grace. I have since repented and turned back to God. There are many causes for fall like this...my faith is new, I am immature, I lack wisdom, I am surrounded by ungodliness, and I still learning the fundamentals of God. Once my sure foundation is laid, the likelyhood of failling away is much much less.

10. Do you love God with all your heart and love your neighboor as yourself, thus fulfilling the law and being free from sin?
Yes.

How would you answer to these questions?

Nile

Edit:
Thinking on the purspose of this thread, I'm going to make a new thread for this discussion.


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Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/8/29 9:52Profile









 Re:

Glad everything is going so great for you. How's your pride?

Krispy

 2007/8/29 10:02





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