SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Spiritual Gifts! Prophecy

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 )
PosterThread
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
It is well said by lwpray, as he refers the gift of prophecy to what is temporal and the vocation of a prophet to a life lived before God.


Maybe I'm just having a bad night, but I don't understand that either. Do you see any connection between a prophet and prophecy? Are we talking about 'false prophets' or are you saying that a man can have a genuine prophetic gift but his life-style disqualifies him from being a prophet?

Balaam had a prophetic gift and was a prophet. He was an evil man and used his gift for his own ends but he was a seer. (Num 24:15) He was not a righteous man but it seems he was a prophet.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/8/28 17:32Profile









 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
this sounds as though you are saying that in the current time a 'prophet' is someone who applies the New Testament to current situations. Would you deny the possibility of an extra-biblical revelation of the kind we find in the Acts eg.

And in these days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch. Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar. (Acts 11:27-28 NKJV)[/color]




[b]Some ways to experience the gift of prophecy that has been received, according to and by HIS GRACE and HE sees fit!
Giving your testimony; Helping the church solve a sin problem; Counseling to point a sin problem;Preaching on gospel teams; Serving on an evangelism team; Teaching young adults or youth; Serving on a jail ministry; Giving a devotional[/b]

[i]1 Cor 12:4-15
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; [b]to another prophecy;[/b]to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?[/i]
KJV

 2007/8/28 22:27
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Some ways to experience the gift of prophecy that has been received, according to and by HIS GRACE and HE sees fit!
Giving your testimony; Helping the church solve a sin problem; Counseling to point a sin problem;Preaching on gospel teams; Serving on an evangelism team; Teaching young adults or youth; Serving on a jail ministry; Giving a devotional



I am trying to understand what you understand by 'prophet'. Is there a difference between the exercise of a 'gift of prophecy' and a man who is 'a prophet'? None of the above list is specifically 'prophetic' unless you are interpreting that to mean a timely exposition of scripture. There will elements of the prophetic throughout genuine church life. Prophecy, after all, is the distinctive gift of the New Covenant.

[color=0033FF] “And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall [u]prophesy[/u], Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall [u]prophesy[/u]. (Acts 2:17-18 NKJV)[/color]

The key element in the prophetic is 'revelation' not information and not exposition. It is the timely word spoken 'in season'.

[color=0033FF] How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a [u]revelation[/u], has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. (1Corinthians 14:26 NKJV)[/color]

The prophetic is God's perspective at that moment. Consequently prophecy can relate to the past, present or future. The Jews put Joshua (and other books) among their 'prophets' because Joshua is not just history but God's perspective on history and, as such, revelation.

Perhaps you are trying, in your posts, to guard against the 'self styled prophet' who implies a greater authority because 'God has called him to be a prophet'. Readers of these posts will know that I have little time for such claims. However I do believe in the contemporary manifestation of the Spirit in prophecy in the local church (which is what we have in 1 Corinthians) and I do believe that apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastor/teachers will be given to the Church until the Lord returns.

I am also sure that although these 'function gifts' are still given it is dangerous to label the men who exercise them. There is much evidence that in the NT these 'men' were recognised by the Church but there is no evidence that they ever carried these functions as titles. The NT is little interested in titles but is greatly interested in functions.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/8/29 1:45Profile









 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:
Some ways to experience the gift of prophecy that has been received, according to and by HIS GRACE and HE sees fit!
Giving your testimony; Helping the church solve a sin problem; Counseling to point a sin problem;Preaching on gospel teams; Serving on an evangelism team; Teaching young adults or youth; Serving on a jail ministry; Giving a devotional



I am trying to understand what you understand by 'prophet'. Is there a difference between the exercise of a 'gift of prophecy' and a man who is 'a prophet'? None of the above list is specifically 'prophetic' unless you are interpreting that to mean a timely exposition of scripture. There will elements of the prophetic throughout genuine church life. Prophecy, after all, is the distinctive gift of the New Covenant.

[color=0033FF] “And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall [u]prophesy[/u], Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall [u]prophesy[/u]. (Acts 2:17-18 NKJV)[/color]

moe_mac
[color=0099EE]God poured out his spirit on us through Christ at the cross and the resurrection 3 days later and on the day of Pentecost when the disciples waited in the upper room, they received power when gave gifts through the Holy Spirit to men, just as the Prophet Joel said HE would. He still is pouring out HIS SPIRIT today when a person makes Jesus the Lord of their life. He will continue until the fulness of the gentiles has come.[/color]

philologos continues:
The key element in the prophetic is 'revelation' not information and not exposition. It is the timely word spoken 'in season'.

[color=0033FF] How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a [u]revelation[/u], has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. (1Corinthians 14:26 NKJV)[/color]

moe_mac
[color=0099EE]Each time God's Word is given or spoken and HIS SPIRIT prompts that speaking, it is a tongue. It is a teaching. Each time the SPIRIT allows one to see truth through HIS SPIRIT and THE WORD he gets an interpretation.[/color]

philologos continues:
The prophetic is God's perspective at that moment. Consequently prophecy can relate to the past, present or future. The Jews put Joshua (and other books) among their 'prophets' because Joshua is not just history but God's perspective on history and, as such, revelation.
Perhaps you are trying, in your posts, to guard against the 'self styled prophet' who implies a greater authority because 'God has called him to be a prophet'. Readers of these posts will know that I have little time for such claims. However I do believe in the contemporary manifestation of the Spirit in prophecy in the local church (which is what we have in 1 Corinthians) and I do believe that apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastor/teachers will be given to the Church until the Lord returns.

moe_mac wrote:
[color=0099EE]I am not trying to guard against anything other than adding to and taking away from God's Word. When I read revelations I can see that is an important thing to guard against. God calls stills men to speak HIS WORD which are prophets. As a matter of fact, if God did not call them, they are not equipped. Everyone he calls he equips. If they are equipped then they have the gift of prophecy. To answer one question I think you may have asked or implied. Do we have Apostles today that have the same roll as Paul and the rest? I think you can answer that question by asking yourself if you, me or anyone else has the gift or the authority to add or take away from the WORD of GOD or the same authority of gifts that Paul and the Apostles had. I don't think so. We still have prophets, evangelist, pastors/teachers today as God gave each gift as HE determined. I can tell from your reply that there is a point you would like to make concerning prophecy that you understand differently than I do. Just spit it out brother. Some think a prophet tells the future that is not contained in the Bible. God has already told us all HE wants us to know for now, through HIS WORD and the prophet delivers that WORD. I look forward to your reply brother.[/color]

philologos continues:
I am also sure that although these 'function gifts' are still given it is dangerous to label the men who exercise them. There is much evidence that in the NT these 'men' were recognised by the Church but there is no evidence that they ever carried these functions as titles. The NT is little interested in titles but is greatly interested in functions.

 2007/8/29 9:04
IC
Member



Joined: 2005/7/1
Posts: 4


 Re:

[color=000099]I must wear multiple hats, and in shuffling them all it may appear that I am excluded, hence...[/color]

philologs continues:
I am also sure that although these 'function gifts' are still given it is dangerous to label the men who exercise them. There is much evidence that in the NT these 'men' were recognized by the Church but there is no evidence that they ever carried these functions as titles. The NT is little interested in titles but is greatly interested in functions.

 2007/8/29 12:08Profile









 Re:

Quote:

IC wrote:
[color=000099]I must wear multiple hats, and in shuffling them all it may appear that I am excluded, hence...[/color]

philologs continues:
I am also sure that although these 'function gifts' are still given it is dangerous to label the men who exercise them. There is much evidence that in the NT these 'men' were recognized by the Church but there is no evidence that they ever carried these functions as titles. The NT is little interested in titles but is greatly interested in functions.



[color=003333]moe_mac wrote:
Amen on titles not being the important thing. We are, as a christian operating in the gifts, if I can used some worldly terminology, we are just playing the hand we are dealt, with whatever gift or gifts God has given us, to use it for HIS GLORY and we should always remember that it is by HIS grace that we are what we are, whatever that might be.

Rom 12:3
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
KJV
Having said that, one other helpful thing we must remember.
James 4:6-7
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
KJV

Humility and submission to God and HIS WORD,and not to man, brings more grace as in Luke 14:11.It is a joyful thing when we please both God and our fellow man. And just as you conveyed, in your post, if we become more concerned with a title than HIS gift and HIS purpose, then this verse might fit us.
Mark 12:38-40
38 As he taught, Jesus said, "Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted in the marketplaces, 39 and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 40 They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely."
footnote:
I know you have most likely heard some pharisees in today's time praying, you hear all the thees and the thous, and the arts, which if someone uses that type language normally, then that is fine, as long as our speaking and our writings are in the manner in which we normally talk and write, and we are not trying to impress man with nothing other with than God's Word and will. Sometimes in our speaking and writings, if we are not careful, will become more concerned with fancy and elegant speech and words of man's wisdom, than saying what HE gave us to say. Our prayers should be with much fear trembling and much reverence to awesome God and not for show. Education is a great thing if it is all used for HIS GLORY. When our prayers are silent and from my heart and my mind, that's fine. There are times, we may use our tongue in a vocal voice to convey our request to God, in Jesus name, alone just us and God, and at other times, they may be vocal, in the company of others christian or people. Either way, God does have any problem knowing exactly what is in and on our heart. That is exactly, what we should speak, when we don't speak that, then we are quenching the spirit and we are being disobedient, I have also done that many times and have to ask for forgiveness and ask for strength for the ability to perform the repentence neccasary. Many times, when we speak the things HE has put on our heart vocally or written to others, it will be offensive to others. That whay Paul said, are we worried about pleasing men are God in Gal 1:10 Thanks for your comments brother.[/color]

 2007/8/29 13:04
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
God poured out his spirit on us through Christ at the cross and the resurrection 3 days later and on the day of Pentecost when the disciples waited in the upper room, they received power when gave gifts through the Holy Spirit to men, just as the Prophet Joel said HE would. He still is pouring out HIS SPIRIT today when a person makes Jesus the Lord of their life. He will continue until the fulness of the gentiles has come.



I don't understand you. Do you mean there were three separate outpourings? Why would you say that 'God poured out his spirit on us through Christ at the cross' when there is absolutely no indication of this in the scripture?


Quote:
Each time God's Word is given or spoken and HIS SPIRIT prompts that speaking, it is a tongue. It is a teaching. Each time the SPIRIT allows one to see truth through HIS SPIRIT and THE WORD he gets an interpretation.


I certainly don't understand this one. Are you saying that every Spirit inspired utterance is a 'tongue"?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/8/29 17:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:
God poured out his spirit on us through Christ at the cross and the resurrection 3 days later and on the day of Pentecost when the disciples waited in the upper room, they received power when gave gifts through the Holy Spirit to men, just as the Prophet Joel said HE would. He still is pouring out HIS SPIRIT today when a person makes Jesus the Lord of their life. He will continue until the fulness of the gentiles has come.



I don't understand you. Do you mean there were three separate outpourings? Why would you say that 'God poured out his spirit on us through Christ at the cross' when there is absolutely no indication of this in the scripture?


Quote:
Each time God's Word is given or spoken and HIS SPIRIT prompts that speaking, it is a tongue. It is a teaching. Each time the SPIRIT allows one to see truth through HIS SPIRIT and THE WORD he gets an interpretation.


I certainly don't understand this one. Are you saying that every Spirit inspired utterance is a 'tongue"?




moe_mac wrote:
[color=00EE55]I'm sorry for not laying it all out in the first post. I assumed the death, burial and resurrection and the day of Pentecost you knew in the short form. #1 Christ took our sins, yours, mine and the whole world upon HIM at the cross. He arose 3 days later and I believed He walked with the disciples 40 more days before He accended to the right hand of the Father from the Mt. of Olives. He is alive today and will this same Jesus will come back in the same manner as he left. We shall not all sleep. He will come for us. He told HIS disciples to stay here in Jerusalem they received power from on high. That was the day of Pentecost that was prophesied by the prophet Joel being fulfilled. Peter preached and 300 where saved who trusted in Jesus and where those who believed. The gospel has been preached every since fulfilling the great commission. Pentecost was the beginning of the last days. With the Lord a day is like a thousand years. As a matter of fact the one who preached the sermon said that very thing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as he wrote in 2 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
KJV
Now I'm sorry, if these truths blew any prior or present denominational theology out the window or did not agree with your denominational doctrine. I do not even attempt to agree with the doctrine of the church I attend when I study the scripture, but only the truth alone in His Word. I could almost hear you yelling as you were twisting the words I wrote that were evidently shorter than they should have been and evidently not very clear to you. Now if you have some rebuttal I would love to hear it. I believe if you read my post again no where in there can you infer that I wrote anything about 3 separate days of Pentecost but rather HIS SPIRIT is still being manifested today through HIS church and HIS people just as HE planned it.

Whatever gifts that you have been given by the grace of God, I do not intend to or plan to argue with you brother about whether you have indeed any certain gift or not, that is between you and the Lord. I will focus my eyes and heart on using what He gave me by grace and pray He will use me and the gifts He gave me to manifest His Spirit to others and realize without Him I am nothing, and I must confess I fall way short on the gifts that he gave me at times. I also stive to stay humble, because I know He gives more grace to the humble, which is how we get the gifts in the first place and also is the same method that we use to grow in the ones He has already given us.
moe_mac[/color]

 2007/8/29 18:26
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Now I'm sorry, if these truths blew any prior or present denominational theology out the window or did not agree with your denominational doctrine. I do not even attempt to agree with the doctrine of the church I attend when I study the scripture, but only the truth alone in His Word. I could almost hear you yelling as you were twisting the words I wrote that were evidently shorter than they should have been and evidently not very clear to you. Now if you have some rebuttal I would love to hear it. I believe if you read my post again no where in there can you infer that I wrote anything about 3 separate days of Pentecost but rather HIS SPIRIT is still being manifested today through HIS church and HIS people just as HE planned it.



I don't belong to any denomination.
If you could 'hear me yelling' your imagination is better than your theology.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/8/30 17:24Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

I missed this thread, this sounds like it has been exciting. i can't say it was a genuine prophecy katz called this man out. I think there can be a danger in this when we think the Lord is giving us some a prophetic utterance. I had a well respected pastor, that is a pentecostal, called this "spiritual masturbation", they get so mystical in their own spiritual prowess, they begin to be habitual in their "gifts". Not saying Katz is doing this, but some can feel that they are a "prophet" from God and feel they have to correct everyone. If someone gets a word from the Lord and the other does not receive it, that person needs to ask if it was a true word and let God deal with that person, or just let it go. I think there is some pride when he told the pastor he needs to apologize to the congregation; for me that sounds more like the flesh, than the spirit.

We are to prophecy, what is already written in the closed canon of scripture. God can give new revelation if He chooses, but I firmly believe He doesn't. We have everything we need in His word.



 2007/8/30 18:38Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy