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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Could a born again Christian Commit Suicide?

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 Re:

We all will live forever somewhere.
Matt 25:45-46
45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Since it is a known fact 100% percent of all people will face physical death, unless Jesus comes back beforehand. We should all ask ourselves this question. Have we accepted HIS free gift to pay our sin debt in full and do we have HIS HOLY SPIRIT living within our mortal bodies? Have we offered our bodies a living sacrifice?
Rom 12:1-2
12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
KJV


If everyone in the world was really aware of this answer, they would running to Jesus and say Lord what must I do to be saved. Why are they not doing that? Answer: They are deceived by the devil. We must tell them!!!! Who will go? Should we be concerned with hurting their feelings or in the manner that we tell them the truth? Do we need to politically correct in how we tell them the truth? Does it matter if they get their feelings hurt, or does it but only matter that they hear the truth, confess, repent and believe that they may have eternal life with HIM and avoid the eternal punishment in hell, that we all deserve and will have without Christ?
Mark 8:38
38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."
NKJV


 2007/8/26 21:06









 Re: to those who think it a deadly sin

I wonder if those who condemn the person who commits suicide have ever themselves been in such a condition that they wished to die, prayed to die, or were even tempted to kill themselves?

Elijah was.

Jeremiah was.

I was too, on one occasion.

Despair is a terrible thing.

Have you ever suffered from clinical depression? Have you ever had to face utter failure and ruin? Have you ever been so grief stricken at the death of a loved one that you were tempted to want to follow them?

I would suggest that [u]no-one[/u] has a right to pronounce on this until they have experienced something of that temptation and know its power - even for a Christian.

I don't know why the Lord allowed the lady I mentioned to commit suicide, (perhaps to spare her any more torment?) but I do hope and expect her to be in heaven - made fully whole. Not because I believe suicide isn't sin - it is- but becasue I believe that's what the Lord showed us.

Yes, sin is sin, but seeing suicide as one of the worst possible sins (unforgivable because the person dies and its "too late") is only man's tradition. [u][i]God[/i][/u] doesn't say that. And how can we know if a person who commits suicide doesn't repent in their last moments?

Can anyone say that what David did - murdering his friend to cover up his adultery with his wife - was a lesser sin than if someone gives in to the temptation to despair, to escape by any means from unbearable suffering?!!! David was driven by lust and selfishness, and probably by laziness, because he should have gone to war with his army, not lazing about on the roof of his palace!

Yet David was forgiven.

in Him

Jeannette

 2007/8/27 7:51
davym
Member



Joined: 2007/5/22
Posts: 319


 Re:

Quote:
I wonder if those who condemn the person who commits suicide have ever themselves been in such a condition that they wished to die, prayed to die, or were even tempted to kill themselves?



Excellent point Jeannette.

Mental illness is a terrible thing and seems to have exploded in the last 30 years. We now have a assortment of prescription drugs, but yet the problem continues to grow.

Born again Christians are clearly not immune and I believe the devil uses it to trip up Saints. Remember it's spiritual warfare and if we take a stand for Christ we can expect hardship and opposition. (something prosperity preachers seem to miss when studying their Bibles).

I believe the devil can attack our minds if we let him. N.B. I don't believe he can get inside our minds, but he knows the weaknesses in the human system and can make mental illness much worse for us. We have to be careful what we put into our minds e.g. films we watch, web sites we visit. We must also be desperately careful what thoughts we indulge. It's all ammunition for the devil.

If we face emotional trauma e.g bereavement, illness etc we need to lean on the Lord and try not to take our eyes off Him. I imagine this could be extremely difficult given certain circumstances e.g. I know of someone who had throat cancer and couldn't swallow properly and ended up taking their own life. I don't know whether they were saved, but it made me wonder how I would cope with that situation.

A very difficult area.

2 Timothy 1:7 (KJV)
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a [b]sound mind[/b].

1 John 4:4 (KJV)
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Romans 8:35-39 (KJV)
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38For I am persuaded, that neither [b]death[/b] , nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.






_________________
David

 2007/8/27 10:13Profile









 Re:

For those who read my post and interpreted that I said in the post, if a person did commit suicide whether they would or would not go to heaven, let me say this. My answer is at this point I don't know, and I did not think I implied either one. If anyone interpreted me to say that, maybe it was the Word that was posted that spoke. I never intended to post or imply an answer!!!!!!?????

 2007/8/27 14:36
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the [b]will[/b] of my father which is in heaven. Matt. 7:21

But he that shall [b]endure[/b] unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matt. 24:13

I do not believe suicide will ever be the will of God for someones life, and it surely is not enduring unto the end.

I hope this answers your question.

with love- Timmyjoe

 2007/8/27 15:59Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Thanks Jeannette, for sharing your views!

However the examples you are giving from the Old Testament are persons who either got strengthend by the Lord (Eliah, Jeremiah and may I add Jonah) or repented before the Lord (David in Psalm 51).

Consider the words of David:
"Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me" (Ps. 51:10-11). The last stanza was just the thing that happened to Saul (i.e. the Holy Spirit was taken away from him) who commited suicide.

Again examples such as Saul and Judas puts a strong case against the thesis that a born again would commit suicide. The examples is also quite frightful aswell.

We have to bear in mind that David repented before he died and finnished his life pleasing to God. No such thing can be said about a person committing suicide!!!

Often depression is connected with a heavy portion of a introversion and selfishness (and Im talking from experience). From a theological perspective selfishness is always idolatry (the Ego enthrones herself and dethrones God).

If Jesus Christ were the true treasure of life, the total meaning and the strength, happiness and so on; I doubt that we would even have this conversation.

i. Jesus says that a good tree bears good fruits
ii. John the Baptist says that "the axe is already at the root of the trees and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire".
iii. Paul says that the fruits of the Spirit is:
love, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there are no law.
iv. The author of Ephesians remindes us:
"Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption".
v. And Paul again: "Do not put out the Spirits fire".
vi. And lastly Pauls word: No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it (so with Eliah, and Jonah).

I could heap more scriptures but I think Ive made my point. Suicide is no fruit of the Holy Spirit rather the works of the flesh.

Sincerely Magnus
;-)


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/27 19:44Profile
Gwammy
Member



Joined: 2004/7/26
Posts: 76
DeLand FL

 Re:

Jeannette -- thank you for your comments! We are very familiar with suicide. My husband and I heard our oldest son scream and then shoot himself to death; this was during the Christmas holidays a number of years ago. Before his death I too thought that suicide was the final fist in God's face. After Chuck's death I saw it in a new light, God's light, I pray. Only God knows what is in the mind and heart of the poor soul who finally gives up. We were told later that our son was trying to get off drugs at the time.

My personal lesson (there were many, actually) was never to judge another. There are some things that are left in God's heart. I latched on to John 13:7: "You do not understand now what I am doing, but you will understand later on."

God bless you, dear Lady!


_________________
Patricia Erwin Nordman

 2007/8/28 6:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:

moe_mac wrote:
For those who read my post and interpreted that I said in the post, if a person did commit suicide whether they would or would not go to heaven, let me say this. My answer is at this point I don't know, and I did not think I implied either one. If anyone interpreted me to say that, maybe it was the Word that was posted that spoke. I never intended to post or imply an answer!!!!!!?????

Hi Brother Moe

I don't think you gave the wrong impression - you were simply asking the question to find out what people thought on the subject.

That's what I understood anyway, and hopefully everyone else did too.

in Him

Jeannette

 2007/8/28 8:25









 Re:

Quote:

TimmyJoe wrote:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the [b]will[/b] of my father which is in heaven. Matt. 7:21

But he that shall [b]endure[/b] unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matt. 24:13

I do not believe suicide will ever be the will of God for someones life, and it surely is not enduring unto the end.

I hope this answers your question.

with love- Timmyjoe

Hi Timmyjoe

It answers the question but it doesn't answer the problem or the need, of those who are left behind when a friend loved one commits suicide - especially if they are a Christian.

I don't think anyone is denying that it's sin to kill oneself, so as far as facts go you have a point. Yet we can all, even the most earnest beiever who is moving in the Spirit, have moments of despair, and find ourselves unable to have the will to endure any longer.

I mentioned Elijah and Jeremiah.

Haven't you ever felt that way?

If not you probably haven't lived, or haven't been a believer, very long!

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/8/28 8:30
kathleen1
Member



Joined: 2004/8/5
Posts: 226


 Re: Could a born again Christian Commit Suicide?

I seriously considered committing suicide myself, about 15 years ago. I was the victim of a violent and brutal crime, because I was held hostage and raped and beaten, and came close to being murdered. I tried anti depressants, sleeping pills, nothing could give me peace. I almost went crazy trying to deal with what happened to me. I turned to drugs to cope. I remember staring with trembling hands down the barrel of a 357 thinking my pain and shame would be over if i pulled the trigger. I could hear a voice in my head whispering, do it, do it, do it, over and over. My son was only 14 months old, and came toddling in the room just then, and called out "mommy" and something cracked inside me, and I couldn't do it.

Years later, I met the Lord, got saved and off drugs, and He healed me inside where I hurt so deep. I had a dear friend shoot herself and leave 2 baby boys behind, and another of my closest friends, was murdered while backslid, after being warned by a preacher she'd never met if she did not turn from her ways, they would be burying her soon. She did not listen, and was shot and killed a few months later. I had been praying for her, even with some fasting, and tears, for months. She would not listen.

When my friend died, I could literally hear in my head her voice screaming in torment that she was in hell-I heard this for days. I thought I would go crazy. I cried out to God in desperation for answers and He stopped the screaming in my head, that was probably my own conscience, for I felt like I failed her, and then He spoke to my spirit and said, "If she would not listen to Me why do you think she would listen to you?" I was devastated, but He held me up. I found no hope for her eternity in His Words. Then, I discovered she had been warned by a minister before she died.

So I, too have been touched by this. Many nights I have agonized over where my two friends ended up, but I can't change what the Word says, not even to comfort my own heart, even though her pastor tried his best at her funeral, to preach her right with God and in heaven, I knew he was a liar.


This is a very serious subject, not to be handled harshly. It's not what we think or hope that counts, it is what the Word of God says. The Scripture warns us our adversary, the devil is as a roaring lion walking about seeking whom he may devour. He preys upon the minds of people, and drives them to despair. We can't hope things work out, we have to pray. Rev 21:8 tells us all murderers shall have their part in the lake of fire. People often try to reinterpret the Word to comfort themselves when tragedy strikes. My heart goes out to those who have been personally affected by suicide, especially for those whose children or spouses have done this awful thing. Yes, the devil drove them to it, and the medical profession can slap whatever "disorder label" or "sickness label" they want on it but it doesn't change the fact there is a devil out there who seeks to steal, kill and destroy. Folks, we have been warned in the Word of this, several times. I know some have chemical imbalances, and require treatment. But, the medical profession doesn't want to appear ignorant or too religious, so they slap a medical term on something they don't understand out of pride, with deadly consequences. They prescribe medicine to 'help' people with 'disorders' and then warn them if they have suicidal thoughts to stop taking the medicine? That is lunacy. It's also sorcery, which in the Greek is 'pharmakeia'. (Rev 9:21, 21:8) Look it up..in your Strong's Concordance...(G5331, G5332)And consider the anti depressants, the nerve pills, anything designed by flesh to soothe and calm flesh, and anxiety...how many times does God's Word warn us about turning to the arm of flesh for help? (Jer 17:5)

If Satan gains access via someone in a (mentally) weakened, drug induced state, and drives a man or woman to murder a child, and then they commit suicide, we would think most definitely, they die lost, because they die in rebellion to God, with blood on their hands. If a child is playing with a gun and accidentally shoots themselves, they are innocent, but if a person, regardless of the reason, deliberately takes their own life, they die in rebellion to God, too, with their own blood on their hands, as well. They have destroyed His creation, His child. They listened to the serpent, just as Eve did, and they die in rebellion to God. He cannot change His Word for anyone, regardless of how much we want to comfort them with oh, God is so merciful, yes He is. He also means what He says. The Word of God warns us about the ways and work of the devil and how he uses our own flesh and mind against us, which is why we must have the helmet of salvation and shield of faith and pray a covering of protection over those who don't. I do not mean to sound harsh, I understand all too well the torment that can hound your mind. We can not pray loved ones out of a non-existent Purgatory any more than we can expect them to be saved if they die in rebellion to God. He will not let anyone go out without trying to save them but people sometimes just don't listen or can't believe. Man will stand before Him without excuse. As the person dies, so they rise in the judgment. If they die in Christ, they rise in Him. If they die in rebellion, they will rise in rebellion. This should be all the more reason to pray and ask God to help us see when the thief is moving in and recognize before it's too late what is happening. Any 'preacher' who teaches people can be saved that commit suicide teach heresy. I have heard Charles Stanley make this statement, that they can be saved. He is wrong and the devil loves this because it gives people a false sense of security that suicide is actually a way out of their misery. No, it is only the beginning of true misery. I do not condemn or critcize anyone who commits suicide, or anyone for not wanting them to be lost. This is a sad situation for anyone to have to deal with and the last thing they need is some arrogant person who has never been through this to judge.


_________________
Kathleen

 2007/8/28 9:35Profile





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