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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Could a born again Christian Commit Suicide?

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Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 160
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Could a born again Christian Commit Suicide?

Im throwing out this question in the forum.

More and more Ive discovered that more and more preachers counts suicide just as a sin like any other and probably connected to a mental disorder and sickness. This has lead to the conclusion that it is possible for a regenerated christian to commit such an act and still reach the kingdom of God.

Which one of these assertions do you believe to be accurate

i. If suicide is the result of sickness then it is comparable with other deadly deceases (such as Cancer) and should not exclude anyone from heaven.

ii. Suicide is a deadly sin commited by a person who clearly does not have the Spirit of God indwellt (i.e. not a real christian) therefore he or she is not allowed to enter into the kingdom of God.

What's your opinion?

Magnus

:-)


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/26 9:05Profile
jordanamo
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397


 Re: Could a born again Christian Commit Suicide?

I'll leave the judging up to God. Suicide is a hugely complex issue. I do not believe it would stop you from going to heaven, even though to most people it is in some sense the ultimate sin, as you sin while you die. But I believe God is merciful and can forgive those who do such things in rash behavior.

To answer your initial question though, can a born-again Christian commit suicide? Yes. As much as a born-again Christian can commit homicide, which is only misdirected suicide.

Jordan

 2007/8/26 10:14Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 160
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Thanks for your opinion Jordan!

Yes it seems plausible. However would a born again Christian murder anyone? Or is it rather so that if a person once have murdered someone it must have been before they were saved and regenerated?

I think this question of Christian Suicide is a crucial question for the Church of Jesus Christ today, given the bible references such as Judas and Saul (clearly damned people who commited Suicide; maybe even Simpson could be counted to them, depending how you interpet Judges).

My own perspective is that the bible or my inner witness give me no right as a preacher to teach or imply that a Christian can commit suicide and be hoping for glory.

Saint Augustine and the old views in this matter stated the eternal damnation concerning suicide.

However it is God's decision not ours in this matter it would keep us humble.


Sincerely Magnus :-)


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/26 10:56Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 160
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Come on! There must be more people on this forum that has an opinion in this matter.

The suicide-rate is rising amongst the teens.

Magnus :-o


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/26 14:08Profile
ssweber
Member



Joined: 2007/8/12
Posts: 6


 Re: Could a born again Christian Commit Suicide?

Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

If you have been forgiven of your past sin, cleansed from all unrighteousness, and love the light, how could you commit suicide?

 2007/8/26 16:27Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 160
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Yes brother! that's what I thought too. But still there are a lot of good preachers such as Charles Stanley who teaches that a Christian can commit suicide and still enter into heaven. The only thing such a person loses is not the eternal life but the reward for his or her Christian life.

Im not too sure that the teaching mention above is scriptural true.

Magnus ;-)


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/26 16:35Profile









 Re: Could a born again Christian Commit Suicide?

I knew someone who committed suicide. She was a member of an intercessors' group and I have no doubt she was born again.

Maybe because of the fact that the Biblical examples of those who committed suicide (Ahithophel, David's counsellor, and of course Judas)were in rebellion against God, we have assumed that killing oneself is the sin of the person who does it. And because it is a terrible thing to do we also assume that such a person can't possibly go to heaven.

But in the case of our friend God gave a word of comfort. I can't find a copy of it now, but the gist of it was that she had actually been [u]"murdered"[/u]! Basically she didn't kill herself, but demonic powers [i]drove[/i] her to it, which isn't the same thing.

Of course, she may have had some hidden sin in her life, which gave an opening, but she was a victim, not a perpetrator. Remember that Satan uses any opening, however small, to torment us. Often the suffering that results is hugely out of proportion to the sin. Maybe this lady had not even done anything wrong - had perhaps been abused as a child, or inherited the depressive tendency and hadn't yet come to complete deliverance in the Lord. Or perhaps a close relative was into the occult or something similar, (freemasonary for example - the man involved in this pronounces, in effect, a curse on his family)

Another friend came from a background where there was serious occult involvement. She was also sexually abused as a child. She said that she once tried to jump out of a moving car. Except that [i]she[/i] didn't try to do that at all! She said that her body moved of its own accord, and [i][u]she could do nothing to stop it[/u][/i]. She had had no thoughts of suicide and was terrified at what was happening. Only the quick reactions of her then boyfriend, who was driving, saved her.

Let's not condemn just because our traditions say that suicide is a terrible sin. Should we be guilty of bringing further grief on a bereaved family already in shock! Or condemnation on a failed suicide who is already unutterably crushed and tormented by the Enemy?

Jeannette

 2007/8/26 17:38
jordanamo
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397


 Re:

Quote:
Mangan: Yes it seems plausible. However would a born again Christian murder anyone? Or is it rather so that if a person once have murdered someone it must have been before they were saved and regenerated?


This is a matter of free will. If you believe one who is born again by the Spirit cannot murder themselves or another, because God will not allow it no matter what, and that if they do such things they cannot in anyway be saved, then that is fine, but I disagree entirely and wholly. My basis? We are not in our glorified bodies, and even though we have the Spirit, we still have the flesh. It can sin. It can do horrific things. If we let it.

Quote:
Little Gift: But in the case of our friend God gave a word of comfort. I can't find a copy of it now, but the gist of it was that she had actually been "murdered"! Basically she didn't kill herself, but demonic powers drove her to it, which isn't the same thing.

I am a bit skeptical of "demonic powers" murdering her. If she had the Spirit, the demonic forces have no authority over her. The Devil can't touch a Christian unless God would allow it.

Quote:
LittleGift: Let's not condemn just because our traditions say that suicide is a terrible sin. Should we be guilty of bringing further grief on a bereaved family already in shock! Or condemnation on a failed suicide who is already unutterably crushed and tormented by the Enemy?



Yes, if God's capable of forgiving me in my sins, can he not be capable of forgiving someone who commits suicide, especially when they have already been saved? What if I happened to die in the middle of a sin... would that mean I go to Hell? Of course not. So, what right do we have to declare someone is going to Hell for committing suicide? None at all.

To be fair, suicide is reprehensible. "[It] is a lack of faith which takes no account of the living God," said Dietrich Bonhoeffer (Ethics, SCM Press, p.143). It intervenes in the plan of God and ends life when God has said No. But it can be forgiven, just as any other sin, even though it may appear to our minds to be the "unforgivable" sin.

Jordan

 2007/8/26 18:16Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 160
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Thanks Jordan for your opinion!

I do not agree with you... Suicide is a process of spiritual deterioration and not just a case of sinning which we all do but a continuous state of sinning.

Read 1 John about the two statements of sin.
a. If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us (1 Jn 1:8)
b. Noone who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God (1 Jn 3:9-10).
c. [...] you know that no murderer has eternal life in him (1 Jn 3:15).

Magnus ;-)


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/26 20:17Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 160
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

I have the deepest respect for your view, Jeannette! I have also the deepest respect for someone who lost a friend, relative or family member aswell. This is an intricate matter, no doubt about it!

Look at my answer to Jordan for details about some of my views about the sin of Suicide.

As Christians we should not back off from stating the truth if we believe it strongly to be true.

Saint Augustine said in his book about the Free Will: that a person would not commit suicide if he/she knew it would lead to eternal damnation in hell. Rather every person who commits such an act thinks that God would show him or her mercy and that they enter into a state that is a relief from the pains and anguish on earth.

You mentioned about demonic powers and enslavement of will. I do agree, that this reality exists. But!!! A person that is born anew or regenterated - with the mind of Christ and the fruits of the Spirit would'nt commit suicide and would'nt open him- or herself to such a demonic influence. However a neglected prayer life and continuous sinnig can extinguish the Holy Spirit and make place for evil spirits. The example of Saul in the OT is frightening; here is man who were filled by the Holy Spirit and prophesied but died of suicide (citing Leonard Ravenhill) after a sinful rebellion against God.

Magnus
:-D


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/26 20:39Profile





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