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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Mother Teresa

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 Re:

Mother Teresa did much good in the world. I respect her for her humanitarian work. She put everyone else to shame.

Unfortunately, she held strongly to Catholic beliefs, and she stated plainly in her writings that her faith for salvation was in "the Church" and in Mary. So, sad to say, by her own admission, she was never saved.

Perhaps she didnt feel the presence of God in her life because she never had the presence of God in her life.

Before I'm accused of being judgemental... I'm not. I'm comparing her own statements of what she believed against scripture. The Word of God does the judging.

Krispy

 2007/8/27 8:50









 Re:

Wow-

I don't know how anyone can read the quotes that roaringlamb has posted and still feel the need to "stick up" for mother Teresa. Funny that earlier someone said:

Quote:
It's just a shame that the anti-Christ spirit is now using this to say that if a woman who avowed such a deep faith as Mother Teresa had such doubts...



I think it a shame that we look at the good works of an openly and blatant idolater and the antichrist spirit says "do not judge this women"....

1 Corinthians 6 (NIV)
11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you


If Mother Teresa died in her sin and idolatry she will burn in hell forever as an enemy of the cross of Jesus Christ despite any profession in the faith and her "good works".

In Christ - Jim

 2007/8/27 9:02









 Re:

Quote:

Corey_H wrote:
So far on this thread people have opined that Teresa was unsaved being a "Marian Catholic", "fell into a pitfall" of works-based faith, or perhaps wasn't saved because she wasn't constantly filled with spirit-filled joy.

Though I don't dare openly speculate as to her relationship with God - especially by her post-humously released notes (shamefully released against her will, no less) - I will offer some scripture that ought to humble the most zealous armchair Christian:

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (JAM 2:18)

She did it all to please her Lord. Who are we to judge this dead woman's motives or standing with the Lord?

"A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [i]For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.[/i]" (MATT 12:35 - 37)


you can judge with words. And one day you will stand before Him and explain every word you ever spoke:




moe_mac wrote: I have not judged anyone. I leave that job to the judge. I did not speak negatively or positively about her and if I had, it would have not been judging. When you administered punishment you have judged or spoke what I knew to be false about her or someone, which would be baring false witness. I was only responsing to a twisted scripture about judging.


I know that why I strive to speak what I know he says and give people truth about what judging is.
When you tell people from HIS what God says, the devil says, "Did God really say"

You might want to look at his one too.
Matt 5:19-20
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
KJV

How much righteousness did the Pharisees have? Not enough to believe what Jesus said or receive any of HIS righteousness and therefore let Jesus impact their life.

 2007/8/27 22:40









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Compton said

Quote:
If a great woman like her felt herself distant from the Lord, then what hope do any of us have of finding a refuge in God from our works?



A refuge from works? A vacation? Is this what our Lord died for?

"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? [i]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.[/i]" (MATT 24:44-46)

Quote:
On a broader level, I also wanted to briefly comment on the possibility that Theresa was some type of suffering mystic on the order of St John of the Cross...



And what prophet or saint hasn't suffered? Or what kind of Christian doesn't suffer?

"It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart. [i]Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.[/i] The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth." (ECC 7:2-4)

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; [i]if so be that we suffer with him[/i], that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." (ROM 8:16-18)

Quote:
So, if we try to see Theresa's sadness as a type of mystical higher calling, keep in mind we may be pointing some people who are struggling with depression and sadness towards emulating her depression, and not her good works.



You've formed your own image of her in your mind. You've made her into a heathen mystic instead of a charitable woman.

Quote:
This whole issue of finding peace with God is really the focus of my post...

If we would find peace in ourselves, we must find and know acceptance from the Lord. This peace is through faith in the Lord Jesus...



"They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace." (JER 6:14)

I hope you're kidding. Because my Bible says I'm at unceasing war with the flesh, the world, and the devil. My Bible says that the prophets were terrified at the presence of the Lord. My Bible describes the Word proceeding from the Lord's mouth as a two-edged flame of sword that will immolate everything but silver and gold.

If I ever want "inner peace", I'll take a yoga class or read some Christian self-help book by Rick Warren.

'Till then, I'll wrestle with the flesh, the world and the devil on a minute by minute basis.

Quote:
Works are not a pitfall! However works justification is a great pitfall. Now Theresa was obviously concerned with more then with her own peace...she was laboring in love for others, even without the benifit of personal peace. This is noble and perhaps a sign of personal strength. So for me this is not a discussion on the merit or value of Theresa's life. My comments were specifically adressing a tendency to see works as a means of finding peace with God. Thesesa's confessions are a troubling reminder that while good works are praisewothy, and sorely needed in this world, they are a non sequitur towards finding peace with God.



She didn't cut the rotting, stinking, dead flesh off of lepers to make peace with God. She did it to please Him and because He told her to do it.

 2007/8/28 2:29









 Re:

KrispyKrittr said,

Quote:
Perhaps she didnt feel the presence of God in her life because she never had the presence of God in her life.



Or perhaps she didn't need the constant signs and wonders the evangelicals keep demanding from God.

Who requires more attention and supervision? The employee who can't keep up with the workload or the one who effortlessly does the work of four men in half the time?

"For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." (LUKE 12:48)

When the Holy Ghost doesn't talk to a man or woman, that person must be greatly blessed or greatly damned.

 2007/8/28 2:49
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

To me Teresa is an enigma. I admire greatly her work with the poor. I also admire her selflessness, her denial of personal comforts in order to assist the downtrodden; her attitude towards to poor. She puts most Christians to shame.

Then one reads of her allegience to Marian theology and it raises lots of red flags....Marian theology, as I understand it, would be tantamount to idoltry.

She is dead. Whether she knew the LORD as her Saviour, God knows and that is all I need to know and can rest with that.

In the meantime, I am puzzled with her ability to raise huge sums of money to fund her projects...perhaps I must relegate this question to the unanswerable file...

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/8/29 12:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:
To me Teresa is an enigma. I admire greatly her work with the poor. I also admire her selflessness, her denial of personal comforts in order to assist the downtrodden; her attitude towards to poor. She puts most Christians to shame.



[if] The things she did were done for an idolatrous reason, a humanitarian reason, etc, they are vile acts. If it was not for the glory of the one true God then her works are nothing but filthy rags. If she strengthened sinners in their sins by lending validity to their faith in false Gods (hinduism, etc) then her works only further those lies that damn mens souls and dishonor the one true God.

If I sell my house to buy medicine for a dying man and offer it to him in the name of the virgin mary I have done and evil thing and my lot will be in the lake of fire with all idolaters unless I repent.

This is a hard word, who can accept it?

In Christ - Jim

 2007/8/29 12:20









 Re:

Brethren, The tension we are feeling, is in our quest to be loving as "He is Love".
John tell us, "in _ beginning was The Word [Logos], and The Word was with God, and The Word was God.
In Revelation 19:13 - HE is returning and His Name is still "The Word of God".
Our Bibles are called "The Word of God".
One knows that they are Saved by their Love of The Logos. Both He Himself and His written Word.
Of this and only this, should we be extremely jealous, lest our compassion, extensions, sympathies and so forth exceed that of God Himself, which is a contradiction in terms or thoughts.
Our jealousy for The Logos, should - in comparison, to our love for even parents, siblings, spouses, friends, would be as hate.
If we cannot separate Christ the Logos from The Logos of the written Word, [being the only source written of and by Him], then our jealousy to abide and not contradict Him, is where our hearts of Love toward Him should be. By this, do we know that we Love Him. We would never consciously intend to contradict Him, in any of our thoughts or words, but yet, as we grow in Him - there are times in our attempts toward showing His Mercy, that we may step outside the strict parameters of His Word.
If a person does not jealousy and unconditionally love and guard The Word of God, than that will cause them to "go beyond what is written" and our love for The Word of God should be questioned and prayed over, if we name The Name.
When 'our' compassion, mercy, sympathy, grace - exceeds that of The Word of God or contradicts The Word of God, than we are in error. Remembering always that The Word of God is Who we now call Jesus.
Humans by nature swing as a pendulum between being less compassionate than The Word of God or in their attempts to be "merciful", exceeds the compassion of The Word of God. The only plume line is The Word of God, lest we pardon those, who have not His pardon and by doing so, lead others astray.
This is why He said that we would be hated. We do indeed see, or should see, all things as black or white. Either it is in total agreement with The Word of God or it is error and from the father of lies. No gray areas, as the world would want us to have and is strongly pushing the Church to have.
Our intense jealous love for The Word of God, will be and has been the reason for the persecution of the Saints.
Though our intentions may be toward kindness and mercy and sympathy, if we go beyond what is written, we have gone beyond The Word of God, Who is the judge of the whole earth. And if in our intentions toward kindness and mercy and sympathy, we go beyond what is written, then our love for The Word of God is lacking.
Love must be toward The Word of God first, then His Love will perfect our love to be as His - which contains His Holiness [which it and with it's demands] at the same time --- if we stray from The Word of God, we make our love more perfect than His.
Jeremiah, just for one, is a good example of that Love-Jealousy we must have for His Word.
God said, "Ye must be born-again." and "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other Name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."


1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.


By comparison, we could study the lives of William Carey, Amy Carmichael, Huldah and Mark Buntain, GFA, WMP and the thousands of other unsung heroes of The Faith, who have and are tirelessly labor in India and elsewhere - preaching Christ and Him crucified.
"Would feeding the hungry or ministering physical help to the sick, without giving them The Way of Salvation, find the recipients of our 'help' any better off in Hell?"

 2007/8/29 12:42









 Re:

Corey... by her own admission and by her own words... she was not saved. And that is why she did not feel the presence of God. That is the point you are missing.

Her faith was not in Christ alone. It was in Christ, plus Mary. Christ, plus the Catholic Church. Christ, plus her works. Christ, plus the eucerist.... etc.

If our faith is not in Christ alone, we are lost.

Krispy

 2007/8/29 13:05









 Re:

KrispyKrittr said,

Quote:
Corey... by her own admission and by her own words... she was not saved. And that is why she did not feel the presence of God. That is the point you are missing.

Her faith was not in Christ alone. It was in Christ, plus Mary. Christ, plus the Catholic Church. Christ, plus her works. Christ, plus the eucerist.... etc.

If our faith is not in Christ alone, we are lost.



And you don't do the same? Christ, plus the evangelical church? Christ, plus the conventions, retreats, and summer camps? Christ, plus the evangelical books? Christ, plus the baptism by immersion? Christ, plus x-theologians' eschatological interpretation of pre- mid- post-trib, etc...?

Greater minds than ours have wrestled with the "perfect" interpretation and implementation of religious things. And just consider what a mess all these opinions have made of it (over eighty thousand denominations recorded in the States alone).

Our Lord gave us a New Commandment: to love one another as we love ourselves. [i]Teresa fulfilled this commandment to love.[/i] Need we drag the name of a dead woman as charitable and loving as her through the mud because she was a catholic?

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; [i]but he that doeth[/i] the will of my Father which is in heaven." (MATT 7:21)

"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part." (MAR 9:38-40)

 2007/8/29 17:03





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