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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is the wearing of paint a sin?

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running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:

I think with these smaller(?) issues the biggest thing is that everyone be completely honest with their own conscience. When I'm dealing with a smaller issue in my life if I'm brutally honest, as some say, then I know if my conscience is in all honesty clear on the issue or if I'm doing it because I like it even though I have way down deep this tiny sneaky suspiscion that I shouldn't be doing or wearing or watching it or whatever the case may be. But I like it and so I try to convince myself that it's fine. I've noticed in my own life that when I take up a hard defence of something that the reason usually is because I like it but I know that it's questionable. We can't judge each other so the responsibility is on each one of us to be perfectly honest with God and our own conscience.

I'm not implying anything either way on the whole make-up thing, I'm just talking about Romans 14 issues in general. The things that aren't clearly spelled out in scripture as right and wrong.


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/8/24 8:56Profile









 Re: Is the wearing of paint a sin?


theopenlife said

Quote:
The same truth applies to makeup. For who does she wear it, and why? Does she knowingly draw the eyes of men?

As one who gave up eye-shadow and mascara for the Lord when I was 20, I can honestly say that it didn't put off as many men as I would have wished!

Further, 'Does she knowingly draw the eyes of men? is not dependent on make-up either. She can do that without even trying, and when she tries not to (draw the eyes of men), she can find it even harder to fail!


On the matter of the original condemnation of stage paint, this may have been part of the backlash against ungodliness on stage which began in the last decade of the 1600s, when a churchman spoke out. You see, stage plays (of which Charles I) had been very fond and took part, were abolished after his execution (at least) while the Puritans and Oliver Cromwell's men were in charge. It was not until Charles II regained the throne in 1660 that a royal playwright was retained, and a 'Master of Revels', and dancing was allowed again.

Not only were new plays produced, but a great many old ones, and Shakespeare revamped. Many plays included at least on male homosexual couple either by implication or, walking hand in hand across the stage. And, it was not until Charles II's reign that the brave step of allowing a real woman to play the leading female role began to be tried. Of course, women had been on stage before in female roles, but, men (youths) had been dressing up as women, and therefore, were painted up to look female, and were being kissed on stage by the leading male.


Quote:
Does she take pleasure in shallow hopes of preferential treatment and vain respect? Why?

Might this be a slight on men, who [i]do[/i] respect a woman honestly, and not just because of her make-up?

In certain circles, mysogyny comes as standard, particularly where there is moral confusion about homosexuality; so a woman who prompts a masculine response towards herself, is not necessarily sinning (imho). Even a little discreet make-up can make her also more dignified in the face of ribbaldry.

Having said all this, I believe Krispy has covered all the other bases eloquently, and for me, the heart remains the devious member.

'Is the wearing of paint a sin?' In that it orginates in idolatry, I believe a Christian woman (or man) has to know exactly why they are using it, and know the accompanying peace of God in their hearts, or at least no check against it which they ignore; or, yes... it is sin to that person.

 2007/8/24 9:07









 Re:

Quote:
On the matter of the original condemnation of stage paint, this may have been part of the backlash against ungodliness on stage which began in the last decade of the 1600s, when a churchman spoke out. You see, stage plays (of which Charles I) had been very fond and took part, were abolished after his execution (at least) while the Puritans and Oliver Cromwell's men were in charge. It was not until Charles II regained the throne in 1660 that a royal playwright was retained, and a 'Master of Revels', and dancing was allowed again.



You Europeans and your monarchs...

Quote:
Many plays included at least on male homosexual couple either by implication or, walking hand in hand across the stage.



Not much has changed. My sister went to an artsy type college. She was a music major, and she'll tell ya... most of the guys that were music or theater majors were gay.

Krispy

 2007/8/24 9:30









 Re:

A worthy question for every woman to ask herself is, "for who am I wearing this or that?"


moe_mac
When it comes to this subject, I think the most often and most usually sin about women wearing or not wearing pants would be, not wearing them in some cases to seduce men and demanding to wear them, as a figure of speech, as the leader and as the head of the christian family.

 2007/8/24 9:52
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Corey_H...

Quote:
Make up serves one purpose and one purpose only: to make the wearer more attractive. It's purpose is to enhance sexual desire and thus control men.

...

The opposite side of the coin are men who drive sports cars or flash money around, etc, to attract the ladies...

Good points -- especially about both "flipped sides of the coin."

Can this topic be confined to "makeup" (or "body paint")? Can the same thing be said about people who dress in really modern looking clothing? This is the rationale of the Amish dress code (as told by some of my Amish friends). That is why even the men, in some of the more strict Amish communities, are limited to black or blue clothing. Could the same thing be said about our hairstyles? Our jackets? Our cars?

Some of us dress in a manner as to be "presentable" (versus a desire for sensual attraction). I purchase my clothes because of cost, comfort, durability and presentability. I wear New Balance, Nike, Sketchers and Vans footwear, not because they are "cool" or to be associated with the brand or people who wear that brand -- but because they are extremely comfortable. In the same way, I wear shirts and pants/jeans/shorts (gulp -- yes MODEST shorts!) accordingly. This is not because of personal vanity. Yet I have endured some criticism in the past for wearing shorts, jeans or t-shirts. I've even been criticized for my hair cut and "worldly" ties. I've even been criticized for the color of my car.

My short hair, it seems, should be brushed at all times with no gel, mousse or hairspray to keep it in place. Yet I live in a very windy place next to the Gulf of Mexico. My ties, it seems, have been considered too "colorful" by a few well-meaning ladies. They told me, "[i]Red is the color of sin, you know[/i]." My wife's Ford Escape is yellow and my Ford Explorer is (gulp) red. A few individuals obviously "heard the Lord" explain to them that these colors are the color of vanity. I guess the Lord wants us to drive either a blue, black or white vehicle?

My wife is quite modest. She has never had (and refuses to have) her ears pierced, although I don't know that I see anything wrong with it. She hardly wears any makeup whatsoever, except a little colored lip balm on occassion to mask her lips from the hot Texas sun. Yet she wears her hair in a very beautiful way (well, I like it). As a hispanic woman, her hair is naturally thick (VERY, VERY thick). She either uses a straightener (a "chi") to relieve the body of her hair, wears her hair pulled back with fasteners, or she cuts her hair in a manner to keep the hair "down." Yet I have read comments in the past where some would consider her endeavor another form of personal vanity.

At which point can we honestly consider a behavior "personal vanity" or a desire to obtain sensual "attraction" from others? Someone once made the comment in another "modesty" thread about the manner in which we present our homes. Do we ever make them attractive? Yes, there are some nicely painted homes that are falling apart on the inside. But I have also seen some nice homes on the inside that were falling apart on the outside. Our true character is often (yet not always) revealed on the outside. I married my wife for her inner beauty (and purity of heart) rather than mere outer attractiveness. I'm glad that she cares enough to take care of her body and make herself presentable at her job. If she didn't, I wouldn't care. I love her regardless of her hair or dress.

I suppose that these sort of matters are best left to our own communion with God. Why? The opinions differ so widely -- even amongst sincere believers like ourselves! Little is said in the Scripture about such matters (except from an indirect perspective). We certainly know that Jezebel painted her face. Jezebel was evil. But was Jezebel even BECAUSE of the face paint? Or did she paint her face BECAUSE she was evil? Jezebel also lived in a multi-story home. Should we "flee" from her example and sell our two-story houses? Hmmm...

Yet there are also individuals who have facial scars, blemishes, burns, etc... I knew a girl who badly burned on the face, and another who had a very noticeable discoloring of her skin. Both of them used makeup to cover the skin. Would anyone accuse them of trying to attract males for sensual purposes? Or would we assume that they simply were trying to appear "normal?" Is there a set "standard" for dress? Or can such a "standard" differ from person to person, place to place or situation?

I've often read the passages pertaining to Man and Eve in the Garden of Eden. After they ate the fruit and realized that they were naked, they clothed themselves with leaves. Yet God saw it fit to clothe them with animal skins (Genesis 3:22). Why? We have all read about how these were the first "sacrifices" in the Bible (a possible "type and shadow" of later atonement). Yet why did God clothe them with the skins? I really feel that this is the manner in which we should conduct our modesty. Each individual must make an effort to surrender to God and let HIM dictate our manner of dress. If we listen to the "convictions" of others, we would get lost in the multitudes of differing opinion. But if we feel inclined to dress with the permissiveness of God -- then we can feel confident in the manner of our modesty.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2007/8/24 10:13Profile









 Re:

Quote:
When it comes to this subject, I think the most often and most usually sin about women wearing or not wearing pants would be, not wearing them in some cases to seduce men and demanding to wear them, as a figure of speech, as the leader and as the head of the christian family.



Uhm... Moe... er, we're talking about make-up (paint) dude... not pants.

Walmart has reading glass in the pharmacy for not too much money... if you got a pair, you might just look like this: 8-)

Kinda cool, huh?

Krispy

 2007/8/24 10:19
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re: Is the wearing of paint a sin?

Greetings sister

This article was shared with me when I spoke with some sisters in Christ about this very topic, it really opened up my eyes. I am posting part of it here, and including a link if you would like to read the entire thing as it is very long but well worth the read.

God Bless you
MaryJane

http://www.allathisfeet.com/seed.cfm?id=31064

Kingdom beauty

It is okay to recognize and appreciate beauty. The thing we are to guard our hearts is things after the flesh or finding some kind of value in the beauty on a carnal level. Example: I can look at a rose and appreciate the beauty, fragrance, and intricacy of its design. Its aroma can bring pleasure to my sense of smell and its spectacular color capture my eyes. All that is fine as long as I don’t end up worshipping the rose vs. the Creator of the rose.

How does all this relate to things we have been working through? Beauty is NOT the enemy. Vanity and worldly patterns of thinking are the enemy. A splash of color to contrast or highlight something I am wearing is not a problem. God created colors, hues, contrasts, etc… The danger comes when I am getting some kind of pleasure to my flesh or feeding vanity in some way. A hair ribbon, simple pair of earrings, or touch of some make-up is not the enemy. Again, the danger comes with our motives and finding any kind of identity in those things. As always it does go back to why you are doing what you are doing. If birthed in flesh it will produce fleshly babies. UCK! If birthed in the walking in the life, freedom, and spirit of Jesus it will birth good fruit in the spirit.

That being so you can understand why the exact same scenario can produce much different fruit. Put the exact same clothing, earrings, and bow on two women. Depending on their hearts and motives they can emanate two completely different things. One brings a smile to your spirit and soul as you look on her freshness. The other brings an uncomfortable feeling to your spirit. It wasn’t the externals that were the enemy, but what the spirit within was emanating. Make sense? We can appreciate and find pleasure in the beauty that God has given individuals (it is there). He has placed it within us to appreciate and enjoy it. However we must be aware of the dangers that come with that and avoid those pitfalls. Knowing that beauty is there we do want to be extra careful in enemy territory to protect ourselves and each other from that beauty drawing attention from pagans.

A side note in all this…. As mentioned before there is a definite symmetry and balance in God’s nature. That being so, it is very obvious when things are not symmetrical and they stick out in that way. Wearing only “one” earring as opposed to wearing a “pair” of earrings draws definite attention to itself. It is off balance. It is out of God’s order. Very loud colors of clothing, print, or color contrasts draw attention. Why? They are out of balance with the surroundings. Get where we’re going?? We need to be wise and careful, but not paranoid and fearful. :)

If there’s ANYTHING that would smack of the world, we’d go after that with a vengeance in our lives! Jesus came to “destroy the devil’s work”—that’s power-filled!! Curses on sin!! AWAY with you, satan! UGHHHHH!!! ANYTHING that has the world’s infiltrations into our lives, whether in our attitudes and ideas about appearance, the way we raise and teach our children, the way we treat our husbands, or the way we handle and view our money and possessions… REGARDLESS of the area of life, we go after the throat of the crimes of worldliness. We want NOTHING to do with it…. So we pray and we TRUST and we ask God to make things clear and to rip off the blinders from our eyes and EXPOSE the enemy. Even if we don’t have things all cleared up in our minds, we can ALWAYS be asking with FAITH that He is Good and He WANTS to let us in on what He’s thinking. That helps a lot, to know that we can Rest in trusting in Him… SOOOO… all of that to say, with the right kind of energy and jealousy for the things Jesus loves, we’ll be able to *SEE* more clearly what’s of Him and what’s not. And THEN, that process clears the fogginess in our Vision and allows us to SEE HIM more clearly! Just a reminder that all of this and things like it is UNTO the discovering of God in a deeper and much more spirit-satisfying way in our inner man. It’s part of searching for the Kingdom, that’s like a Great Treasure, hidden away… God is veiled to unholy eyes and unconsecrated hearts. But for those who search, “the Kingdom is like a treasure in a field….” “A pearl, of great price”… there’s great and precious “secrets of the Kingdom”… The more we work to “unveil” our spiritual eyes and consecrate ALL, we’ll discover His Kingdom, that lies within each of us.

“Seek first the Kingdom… and all else will be added.”

Just some encouragement that as God is shaking all that can be shaken, there’s the Very Great Reward, for those who hold fast… of Jesus…

Messiah, Friend, Brother and King!

 2007/8/24 11:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It's purpose is to enhance sexual desire and thus control men.

Maybe for some men. I appreciate a woman who does herself up nicely not overly. Not all women are Veronica's, some are just Betty's but Betty looks attractive with little makeup.

I think that in the day that this book was written it was common place for a whore to put on make up, but because it's now common place and even expected from women that it's no longer taboo.

Make up alone doesn't cause men to kneel and obey, it's the way she dresses and how she moves her body, she doesn't walk, she slithers.

Whereas a woman who wears make up and dresses modestly and conducts herself in a way as not to attract attention to herself, now that too me is attractive.

To each his own!

 2007/8/24 11:46









 Re:

Uhm... Moe... er, we're talking about make-up (paint) dude... not pants.

Walmart has reading glass in the pharmacy for not too much money... if you got a pair, you might just look like this:

Kinda cool, huh?

Krispy

moe:
Excuse me everyone! I was on the wrong page. Not unusual for me. It wasn't my glasses that was the problem though, Krispy. I have a 500 dollar pair top of the line glasses that God has blessed me with. It was my age and a little dislexia maybe. So let me comment about the subject at hand.
A Godly women will have an attraction about her appearance even if she has no make up on, even if she just got through coming out of a grease pit. Thanks for getting me on the right page. Nevertheless the other comments still stands if it were discussing the other subject.
Have a blessed day.

 2007/8/24 12:06
Peacecraft
Member



Joined: 2006/12/8
Posts: 93
USA

 Re:

Thanks everyone for your replies! MaryJane, I really liked that article! :)


_________________
Laura

 2007/8/24 13:45Profile





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