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Moe said

[color=6600CC]Our Blessed Hope says, He is the vine, and we are the branches, no worries. Fear not!!!!He said the antichrist would be so slick he could deceive the elect if it were possible. Translated, from the KJV, which is mine and Krispy and many others favorite translation, if we are in Christ, it is impossible for the antichrist to deceive us. How exactly that plays out come many different opinions and theories. But regardless of the opinions and theories, we branches all have the same hope and the same answer (JESUS). Be in the vine and make sure we are a a true branch and in the vine and we will all be safe from deception of the antichrist. [/color]

Brother Gary, the whole point is that it [i]IS[/i] possible for "the elect" to be deceived! In the original Greek the word means "if able". Meaning that, if we are [i]ABLE[/i] to be deceived, we [i]WILL[/i] be!

In English the translated phrase is misleading because these days "If possible" means that it [u]isn't[/u] possible; which isn't the sense of the original. However good the KJV is (I was brought up on it and it is the version in my heart and memory more than any other) it can be misleading at times.

That is why we have to stick close to the Lord and trust HIm and not our own understanding.

It is that very misunderstanding of the meaning that makes us open ot deception, because we think we can't be deceived. That is why I give this warning.

But if we know the [i]possibility[/i] of deception is there than we can check everything out with the Lord and so avoid the danger.

There is no fear in love, but we need to have our eyes open and be aware.

Proverbs 1:17
[i][color=000099]Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.[/color][/i]



 2007/8/23 13:06

Joined: 2007/5/26
Posts: 97


I did not write that the chipping of Amish cows is THE mark of the beast. I posted this article regarding the Amish for one reason--to alert those who will see and hear--[b]we are being conditioned[/b] to receive the mark.

As Jeannette posted in response:

And it will be already so familiar and accepted by most, that this control will come upon us unawares.

QUESTION: How does satan strive to deceive the very elect? ANSWER: Very subtly

 2007/8/23 13:35Profile



rowdy2 wrote:
The mark of the beast as I understand it is worldliness, indicating they don’t mind spiritual matters and live in a spiritual desert, a desolate God forsaken spiritual desert.

Hi Bro Eddie

I believe you are right, but that's still not the whole of it. There's a danger that we will think because we've avoided all known sin and worldliness that therefore we are safe.

That isn't necessarily so.

Recently the parts of Ezekiel 40-48, concerning the priestly line of Zadok, was laid on my heart.

There is a spiritual principle here: Some of God's people become unfaithful. Some are faithful up to a point. A few follow the Lord fully.

There were 70 elders under Moses, upon whom the Holy Spirit came. They had spiritual gifts. We might consider they were what we call born again.

Yet none of them made it to the Promised Land.

There were ten virgins in Jesus' parable. they were [i]virgins[/i], free from any known impurity. But only five made it to the Feast.

There were two leading priests in David's time, Zadok and Ahimelech. Both of them resisted the rebellion of Absolom, but only one, Zadok, would have nothing to do with the rebellion of Adonijah. Ahimelech and many of God's people with him, joined the rebellion. Even though they knew that God had chosen Solomon to be king.

1Kings 1 [i][color=000099]] 5 Then Adonijah the son of Haggith exalted himself, saying, I will be king: and he prepared him chariots and horsemen, and fifty men to run before him.
6 And his father had not displeased him at any time in saying, Why hast thou done so? and he also was a very goodly man; and his mother bare him after Absalom.
7 And he conferred with Joab the son of Zeruiah, and with [b][u]Abiathar the priest[/u][/b]: and they following Adonijah helped him.
8 But [b][u]Zadok the priest[/u][/b], and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, and Nathan the prophet, and Shimei, and Rei, and the mighty men which belonged to David, were not with Adonijah.

In Ezekiel it is called "going astray after their idols". Even though there is no mention of Abiathar or any of his descendants committing any obvious idolatry at the time, the following of another king instead of the one God had chosen, was counted as worshipping idols.

The descendants of Abiather were not allowed (in Ezekiel's vision) to serve God in the most holy things, because of that rebellion.

They could still serve as priests, still, presumably preach and pray. They could "stand before the people", they could sacrifice. But they could not come into the most Holy place.

Ezekiel 44:10
[i][color=000099]10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.
12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.
13 And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.
14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:
16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge[/color][/i]

in Him


 2007/8/23 14:24



Katy-did wrote:
Is the real danger for us therefore, the danger of the "internal" mark of the beast? Anything of "self", the spirit of "I did it MY way", remaining in our hearts, to which we cling?

...If there is nothing in us that responds to this "mark" we will be able to stand in the storm. If not we won't.

This sounds like a *conditional* salvation to me.

The salvation isn't conditional. The condition is [i]receiving[/i] this salvation and letting go our idols in the heart.

Eze 14:4
[i][color=000099] Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols...[/color]

Eze 14:7
[color=000099]For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:[/color][/i]

"What is not of faith is sin"

"When the Son of man cometh will he find faith on the earth?"



 2007/8/23 14:35

Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA


Reply to Janette
Greetings and may you be at peace
Janette wrote

"What is not of faith is sin"
"When the Son of man cometh will he find faith on the earth?"

Janette I agree and add that vision begins where natural sight ends. Faith that Jesus did not have to appear in fleshly form to heal the centurion’s servant showed great faith.


 2007/8/23 15:56Profile

 Re: Conditioning Masses to Take the Mark of the Beast

rowdy2 said,

The mark of the beast as I understand it is worldliness, indicating they don’t mind spiritual matters and live in a spiritual desert, a desolate God forsaken spiritual desert.

The scripture says no man may buy or sell without the mark. If your hypothesis is correct, only worldly people should buy and sell then. Do you buy and/or sell stuff?

Please read the scripture below and tell me how you interpret the "mark" is worldliness.

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." (REV 13:16-18)

Katy-did said,
Those who have the Mark of the Beast have clearly rejected Jesus Christ and salvation through His Blood, death and resurrection life alone in Christ Jesus.

Katy, the scripture also explicitely states that no one can buy or sell without the mark. If your explanation is correct, (that only those who have rejected Christ did, have, and will recieve the mark) and the scripture is correct that only those who have the mark may buy and sell...

Then, if you buy and sell, are you truly saved?

moe_mac said,
Our Blessed Hope says, He is the vine, and we are the branches, no worries. Fear not!!!!He said the antichrist would be so slick he could deceive the elect if it were possible. Translated, from the KJV, which is mine and Krispy and many others favorite translation, if we are in Christ, it is impossible for the antichrist to deceive us. How exactly that plays out come many different opinions and theories. But regardless of the opinions and theories, we branches all have the same hope and the same answer (JESUS). Be in the vine and make sure we are a a true branch and in the vine and we will all be safe from deception of the antichrist.

You're right. We better be sure we're in Christ. Because the pseudo-elect "will" be deceived.

Jeanette said,
But the real "mark of the beast" has to involve actual worship of a false god, not having a microchip implanted, as such. The microchip in that case could be the symbol of it.

Jeanette, read Rev 13 again. The mark (number or name of a man or woman) gives one the ability to buy and sell. The image of the beast is a different thing altogether.

Compliments said,
I think we've conditioned Christianity to believe that this microchip is THEE mark of the beast. If it's the mark of the beast, then why does it have to take wisdom to decipher it? Too many loose ends.

Has anyone ever seen a cow or pig go out and buy and sell?

Compliments, behold all the interpretations and not-to-worries on this thread... that's why wisdom - and a little uncommon sense - is desperately needed.

Particularily when pastors and churchgoers reassuringly pat us worriers on the head and say something to the effect of, "go back to sleep... everything's all right... our governments would never do such a thing..."

mom23beagles said,
Hmmmmmm. I don't have a problem with microchipping cattle, my goodness, all of my beagles are microchipped, for their own safety. If they get lost and somehow lose their collars and tags, the microchip is there to identify them and where they belong (with me). :)

And how ironic it will be should the very company you supported and helped grow by buying these benign Digital Angel (formerly Destron Fearing) microchips win a contract to microchip every citizen in your country in the event of war, economic collapse, disease, or whatever.

What if your kids get lost? Better chip them, too.

[i][b]"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

Benjamin Franklin[/b][/i]

I'll be praying for you all.

 2007/8/23 18:20


The salvation isn't conditional. The condition is receiving this salvation and letting go our idols in the heart

Jeannette, I guess that is the great deception to begin with....what exactly IS salvation, and can one lose it once one has it.

Our salvation is not dependent on WORKS, but Faith. Ist John said, He who believes that Jesus is the Christ, HAS overcome the world. SOOOOO the Overcomes are in question here, as the warnings in the 7 letters to the Churches. But those letters are to Churches, not individual Born Again Christians... Each one starts out ..To the Church OF....God gives his warnings. Each Church is/was struggling through something at their time of life here on earth. The Last Church may be to the Church of TODAY, to those professing Christianity, but not the Christianity of Scripture. Each letter also lets those know who are merely professors, and that Salvation manifests itself in the Truths Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, John (all in one accord) say salvation is...and all are in agreement..…“I am Crucified with Christ, no longer I but Christ in me“.

So the warning to the professing churches is about false doctrine getting in the Church, as we well know today it’s out of control. The GOLD, tried in the fire, IS the fellowship of His sufferings that come ONLY through our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life. Many people are suffering, but is it the TRUE fellowship of His sufferings?

Hindu believes in suffering, and actually suffer believing that is bringing them to Nirvana or what ever, but it’s not the same. The whole world suffers, and even those outside of Christ suffer and actually grow strong from it too, but it’s still not the same.

Satan can counterfeit ANYTHING, even suffering, and make you believe it's perfecting you.

So, what will separate all these lies from the Truth so you won’t be deceived? Well, that fellowship with Jesus Christ conforms us to His image(also can be counterfeited) passes on the knowledge of HIMSELF and the WISDOM we have in Him, and through the wisdom and knowledge of Jesus Christ we are KEPT from this great deception and counterfeit. ***1 Corinthians 2

As the saying goes, you really CAN”T know a counterfeit unless you hold, look ,touch and feel the REAL THING. You can’t have the real thing unless you have received the REAL salvation of Scripture. There must be 1001 different Gospels out there, and 1000 are based on an accursed gospel.

How do you know you have heard the TRUE Gospel?

There will be evidence of that WORD wrought in you. Having that WORD wrought in you is very painful…, called, "the fellowship of His sufferings", as we press on, no matter what the cost, as our conversation and life now are Heaven, our heart in Heaven, our life hidden with God in Christ Jesus IN HEAVENLY PLACES. Not the earth or the things of the earth or the world. Those who mind earthly/worldly things are the enemies of the Cross. Plain and simple. Phil 3

With that said, How many do you know preach this? But rather are they not preaching, peace prosperity, psychobabble , health ect. (EARTHLY PLACES) as well as trying to establish the Kingdom for Jesus. They tell you Jesus wants you to have this or that, that perfect job ,with that perfect house and all that perfect income to go with it...and if you give $2 to this God will give back $2000 kind of gospel we hear today.
It's called replacement/ dominion theology...taking the earthly blessings that were to Israel and saying these belong to the Church...IT DOES NOT!!! ...THIS IS DECEPTION!

So are these people REALLY saved? NOT according to Jesus, Paul, James, Peter, Jude, John etc. Not according to the WORD of God.

Is God warning those who have come short of salvation? YES in the last letter he is calling them to the True Gospel.

Is He warning the Saints in the other letters to get the leaven out of the churches before they lose their testimony? Sounds like it. And just look at those who let Jezebel in. WOW now that is a warning that they are hell bound.

But WE are more that conquerors says Paul, and the Conquerors **are** the overcomes.

Children know their sins are forgiven
Young men HAVE overcome the evil one

You see, there is no guessing game here, if you are growing, you will overcome….and go on to be fathers of the faith encouraging others to stay the course and point the way. Jesus our SURITY ( Hebrews) has already made sure that He will COMPLETE what He started. He who has begun a good work in you will continue it until the day of Jesus Christ. That is a promise tried 7 times. God’s word is tried true and perfect.

Love in Christ

 2007/8/23 19:01

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406

 Re: Conditioning Masses to Take the Mark of the Beast

Brothers and Sisters,

All these post on so many different threads where brothers and sisters make the statement I won’t do that or I will do this and what does the Word say about such things? How do we avoid being deceived into taking the mark?

James 4:13-17
Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: [14] Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. [15] For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. [16] But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. [17] Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 Cor. 10:1-12
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. [5] But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. [6] Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. [7] Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. [8] Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. [9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. [10] Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. [11] Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. [12] Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Psalm 2:11
Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

2 Cor. 7:15
And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Ephes. 6:5
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Philip. 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1 Cor. 2:5
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Rev. 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Is this not how we avoid the mark?

In His Love

 2007/8/23 19:32Profile


Katy-did said,

Our salvation is not dependent on WORKS, but Faith.

Sorry Katy, but I've just about had it with this "salvation by faith alone" doctrine. I know Luther, Calvin, etc believed it, and the vast majority of the evangelicals preach it, but it's not scriptural.

Our salvation is dependant upon both faith and works. We can't just seperate the one from the other:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that [i]doeth[/i] the will of my Father which is in heaven." (MATT 7:21)

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and [i]doeth[/i] them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock." (MATT 7:24)

"[i]And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?[/i] Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and [i]doeth[/i] them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock." (LUKE 6:46-48)

"Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and [i]doeth[/i] his will, him he heareth." (JOHN 9:31)

"Even so [i]faith, if it hath not works, is dead,[/i] being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: [i]shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works...[/i] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" (JAM 2:18-21)

"Blessed are they that [i]do[/i] his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (REV 22:14)

How do you know you have heard the TRUE Gospel?

Obeying is more important that hearing.

"But [i]be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[/i] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." (JAM 1:23-25)

Sorry to all for going off-topic here.

 2007/8/23 20:48

Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah


To symbolize the mark of the beast and not to understand it as an actual mark that will be implemented upon the body is thoroughly naive. I guess only time will instruct some people. Whether you really like the literal interpretation of it or not, this world is going to do it; their already heading in that direction; it's going to happen.

Eli Brayley

 2007/8/23 21:09Profile

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