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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Kenneth Hagin and the Laughing Revival.

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 Re:

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Personally I have not felt led to look into his writings and especially to look into them just to prove the fallacies in his doctrine. I will try and take a look at some writings and get you more detailed ways that Kenneth Hagin taught false doctrines. Yes I do hope this can be a godly discussion with the intent for both of us and others to get closer to God and understand more about his servants and His word.


I have been looking on the internet and I have done so before on Kenneth Hagin, Rhema bible Institute and also the Word Faith Movement and here are some thing I found intially. (I think the major problem is that these teachers are unchecked and claim most of their teachings to be revealed from the Holy spirit, but sadly many of them are not consistent with the Scriptures):

"Every man who has been born again is an incarnation and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth"
"The Incarnation," The Word of Faith 13, December, 1980

"[Man] was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God's presence without any consciousness of inferiority...God made us as much like Himself as possible...He made us the same class of being that He is Himself...Man lived in the realm of God. He lived on terms equal with God...[The] believer is called Christ...That's who we are; we're Christ"
"Zoe: The God-Kind of Life," 1989. pp. 35-36, 41

"You are as much the incarnation of God as Jesus Christ was...the believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."
"Word Of Faith" Dec. 1980, p. 14

--

Here is some documentation on the [b]Word Faith Movement[/b] [i]Also known as "Name-in-Claim-it," "Health and Wealth Gospel," "Positive Confession," "Word of Faith," etc.[/i]

[url=http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/tract3.html]Ten Reasons to Reject WORD-of-FAITH Teachings [/url]


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/7/4 23:19Profile









 Re:

It was stated here that Hagin was a false prophet. That was said because Brother Hagin had said he would be alive when the Lord came. Brother Hagin, had at least two visions of the Lord that I am aware of. For one, we do not know if that is what the Lord meant, that Hagin would be alive, on an occasion where he saw him. Also, do you recall the stories of Jonah, we know sure and well that he was a Prophet, yet at one time in his life, he did not get the message clearly, and would not stand on what God had told him to. Are you saying because he messed up a Prophecy then, that he was False as well? We are so quick to call someone a False Prophet, because WE don't see every letter of what they said come to pass. And then we are quick to quote what other websites said, we are quick to say that 'Such and such wrote an article on the Word of Faith.. here is what they say' Why not go to God? Why not show me, why you think when Jesus said 'Verily verily I say unto you, that whosoever shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea, and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe those things he said shall come to pass, he shall have whatsoever he saith?' Why not show me, why it is you want to consider Christ a liar, or at least, consider the Bible a liar. The New Testament is wirtten by Spirit Filled, Tongue Talking, Godly men. We are not mad, or angry at those of you who deny the Spirit to freely move in your lives, we pray for you. I am a Priest of the Living God, because I am a Son of God. I am a joint heir with Jesus Christ. I get to go where Angel's desire to go. I am more than a conquerer. I have nothing but Scripture to back up what I belive in. If its in the Bible , then I believe it, and that settles it. I asked before that you show me Scripture, where Brother Hagin has been totally wrong. The life of a Prophet is not an easy road, and sometimes, we miss it, we hear the wrong thing. But as long as we are quick to repent, which I KNOW Brother Hagin was, then God will forgive us, and use again when the Holy Spirit desires. You can dispute my words all you like, but my Words come to you on behalf of the Lord of Lord's and King of Kings. We have the Word of God in our posession, we have the Holy Bible to use as a Road Map for our lives. I can assure you Brothers and Sisters, that if you Submit yourself to God, resisit the devil, he will flee from you. Ask God for the Spirit of Wisdom and Knowledge, so that you can rightly divide the Word of Truth. Go to your Father in Heaven and thirst for his annointing. Jesus said if you are Thirsty come and drink and out of your belly shall flow Rivers of living waters. You HAVE to go to Him to get it. Thirst for his Spirit, recive the Comfortor that was promised to us. Take on the whole Armor of God, recieve the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, then go at the Word with a new vigor, a new passion, and a new purpose. That purpose being to take every letter of Gods Holy Word, and apply it to our lives, and to proclaim it from every mountaintop. From every home, every street, every country. I KNOW what the scriptures say, you can not dispute that Jesus made sure his followers had the Baptism of the Holy Ghost on them before they began to be his witness. And thats what we are all made to be, his witness.

I will keep you all in my prayers, and if you have any Scriptures you wish to debate me with, please, post them. I will be more than happy to help you shed some light onto the things of God which you seem to have passed over.


Mitch Miller

 2004/7/5 6:54









 Re:

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Here is some documentation on the Word Faith Movement Also known as "Name-in-Claim-it," "Health and Wealth Gospel," "Positive Confession," "Word of Faith," etc.




Also Sir, there is quite alot of heresy on that website from what I can see, that I the Word of Faith men I have heard, including Brother Hagin, ever believed. Lets not worry about what those people say, this forum was started in order to call one of God's children a 'false teacher and prophet' So lets go based on what Hagin himself, and God, has said.


Thank you,
Mitch Miller

 2004/7/5 6:59
Cherjcd
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 6
Edmonton, Alberta

 Re:

Quote:
It was stated here that Hagin was a false prophet. That was said because Brother Hagin had said he would be alive when the Lord came. Brother Hagin, had at least two visions of the Lord that I am aware of. For one, we do not know if that is what the Lord meant, that Hagin would be alive, on an occasion where he saw him. Also, do you recall the stories of Jonah, we know sure and well that he was a Prophet, yet at one time in his life, he did not get the message clearly, and would not stand on what God had told him to. Are you saying because he messed up a Prophecy then, that he was False as well?



You say that Kenneth Hagin should not be considered a false prophet because he got some things wrong. You also say that maybe Jesus meant something else (he wasn't clear?) and that Jonah got some things wrong too.

There is no doubt on what Kenneth Hagin said about his revelation from Jesus. Either Jesus gave him the vision and Jesus was wrong or else Hagin did not have a vision from Jesus and Hagin is a false prophet. There is no doubt that what he said did not come to pass. Did you know that I have heard the argument about Jonah from many Jehovah's Witnesses to explain why their own organization got many prophecies wrong and why they can still be called true prophets? Did you know that Jonah only gave God's words and he didn't get anything wrong at all? Jonah's prophecy was completely true. The prophecy that God gave against that city was conditional on their repentence. God knew that - Jeremiah 18:7, 8 says that God will relent if the people repent. The people knew it too Jonah 3:8, 9 says that they were repenting to turn God's hand away from them. And last of all Jonah himself knew the conditional nature of the prophecy Jonah 4:2 Jonah said that he knew that God was a gracious and merciful God who relents when people turn back.

Surely you wouldn't claim that Jonah was a false prophet and got things wrong just to justify what Kenneth Hagin did, would you? Kenneth Hagin got this prophecy dead wrong. I know because I read what he said and I watched him for years believing his words that Christ would come in his lifetime. He gave a false prophecy and gave Jesus the credit for the false prophecy. I would rather believe God's word and test out the prophets because that way I know by God's word who is true and who is not. I looks like you want to hold on tightly to Kenneth Hagin and his teachings which take scripture out of context, however know for sure that God has proved Hagin a false prophet. I say this to you in love. God has shown you in his word how to test a prophet. If you reject God's word to bend it to make a false prophet true, you too are distorting the clear words of God. If you are truly open to test Hagin's teachings against the word of God, and you ask God for truth, he will reveal it to you. However if you hold on to Kenneth Hagin on a pedestal and refuse to believe what God's word says about him, you will fall prey to more false teachers and more false prophets who take God's word out of context and justify their false prophecies.

Cheryl

 2004/7/5 7:41Profile









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... looks like you want to hold on tightly to Kenneth Hagin and his teachings which take scripture out of context,.....




Actually as I have said over and over and over again, I am not standing here standing up for Brother Hagin, as much as I am here standing up for the Word of my God. His Bible is very VERY clear on the matters of the Holy Spirit. If you have Scripture, then please by all means, show me exaxtly where the Bible ever says that If you repent then you are still a sinner. Meaning, you are saying that if somoene get a prophecy wrong, they are then a false prophet. Thats the same thing as saying, well you sinned once, you are hell bound forever. Have you forgotten God's Grace? Have we forgotten as a Church that he forgives? I will sit and discuss the Scripture with you. But I will nto sit and discuss theology, or Theory. The Lord has made his word clear. Its like an article I just read on this website, someone was talking about the "Pentecostal' movement. And they claim that Speaking in Tongues, is not a sign of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. That can only show me, that whomever wrote that article, never once Read the book of Acts. Nor did they heed much to what Jesus taught while he was on earth. So again I say, if Hagin did not get a prophecy right, I am sure he was quick to repent. I never once said Jesus got it wrong, Jesus is not a man that he should lie. However what I was talking about, is that being mortal, we can not help but let our flesh get in the way at times. There is no person who has ever stepped onto this earth today, who has gotten every single Word from God correct in their lives. Weather it be something such as buy this home... go to this church.. or whaterver. All have fallen short of the Glory of God. To then go and ruin the reputation of one of God's children, is absurd, and a work of Satan himself. Hagin, and many other 'Word of Faith' teachers, get their Knowledge from the Bible. I would have to assume, you dispute that Smith Wigglesworth raised the dead? It is documented, historians can attest to that. Yet there are so many of us, who have grieved the Holy Spirit so much, that we quickly say.. "OH no.. thats not of God' because of course, Satan would heal people.. or raise the dead? I do not think so, he comes to steal, kill and destroy. We want to be quick to say, "Oh those people are false teachers' And we love to say that, because we don't want to face the fact, that when we are sick, and are not recieving our healing, its because of our faults, we dont want to admit that our faith is weak, instead we want to make our God as weak as possible. But let me tell you this, and this comes to you in the name of the Lord of Lords Jesus Christ of Nazareth, God is all powerful. He has identified himself as The God who Healeth thee. And I can promise you, there is no where in the Bible, that you can prove what I KNOW is false. Read your Bible, show me exact word for word Scripture where God has said anything other than what I have said to you. lets stop with the petty 'so and so said this' and 'Well this is what I see' Lets talk scripture Brother and Sisters, let actually be Bold and pull out the Word of God, and stand up for what it says, regardless of how it might make us look to others, or how much it might make us change ourselves. Lets stop doing this make believe Christianaity, where we take only the few parts we want, and add in the rest of what we want. Lets take God at his Word, else we have little reason to even be here.


God bless, and may the HOly Spirit guide you,
Mitch Miller

 2004/7/5 7:55
Cherjcd
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 6
Edmonton, Alberta

 Re:

Quote:
If you have Scripture, then please by all means, show me exaxtly where the Bible ever says that If you repent then you are still a sinner. Meaning, you are saying that if somoene get a prophecy wrong, they are then a false prophet.



First of all I have already shown you Deuteronomy 18 to show how scripture instructs us to test the prophets. Secondly, please show me where Kenneth Hagin ever repented of his false prophecy. I have never seen it. Do you have a book or material that showed that he repented of the words that he claimed were from Jesus and told us that he was wrong and he repented of this sin? Also scripture gives no hint that we should look on false prophecy any different after the prophecy has failed. Any false prophet (after his prophecy has failed) will backtrack and rewrite his prophecy. The Jehovah's Witnesses did this many, many times. Also are you still claiming that Jonah got his prophecy wrong or do you admit that according to the Bible, Jonah was a true prophet who gave a true prophecy. His prophecy directly from God was conditional (see the scriptures in my last post) and God proved his prophecy faithful when the people repented.

Now if you want the people in his discussion board to listen to Kenneth Hagin's teachings, I would ask you first of all to prove that Kenneth Hagin repented of the false prophecy and asked God to forgive him for claiming that Jesus had given him this vision and these words. Are you willing to do this? If not give one reason why anyone here should listen to the teachings of a proven false prophet.

Again, I say these words in love. I know where you are coming from. I was there myself. I was extremely on fire for Kenneth Hagin and all of his teachings. I preached them to others just like you are doing. But when I saw the truth from God's word and saw how he had taken God's word out of context, I repented of my sin of following a man. It didn't take Kenneth Hagin's death to prove to me that he was a false prophet. It only took the word of God.

Lastly, I have experienced the gifts of the spirit including healing many times. I know the word of God to be true. But believing in the gifts of the spirit including speaking in tongues does not make me accept a false prophet just because he said that Jesus revealed himself to him in visions. The bible is very clear that in the end times there will be great deception. We must be on guard and listen to the Bible and those who share their concern that someone has taken verses out of context. Be willing to check things out for yourself. You don't want to be deceived.

Cheryl

 2004/7/5 8:10Profile









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Jonah was a true prophet, I never said he wasn't. However I did say that he didn't do as God instructed initally. So I just wonder why it is, you still adore him, yet you care nothing for Brother Hagin, who lived almost all of his life doing what the Lord instructed. Also, I have not heard the Prophecy of Brother Hagin's which is in Question. I can however say that he was not a false Prophet, because I know how the man acted, and how he lived his life. So please by all means, show me where I can find a copy of Hagin's actual words. NOt a website that was put up by some average Joe who only wants to demean the man, but a website where I can find trustworthy information. A video of the man giving the Prophecy would be best, or audio of it. Also, show me EXACTLY what Brother Hagin took out of context. You seem to want to say that this is how he spent his life, however you h ave showed me no where in the Scripture where what Brother Hagin taught is false. If you heard him give a prophecy, that you feel did not come true. Have you tried to find out if the man ever repented of it? Have you ever tried to find out if perhaps you heard the prophecy wrong? Or just perhaps, Brother Hagin told the propehcy to a small group of people at one of his services, and since then he went to each who was there, and apologized and had repented of it? I dont believe you are required to confess your faults to every single person in this world, so I seriously doubt Brother Hagin is required to do that either. Again, please please please, give me scriptures here, not on how to judge Prophecy, I know how to judge that. But give me the Scripture that you claim Brother Hagin has taken it out of context. It is time for so many Christians to stop playign games, stop twisting God's words around, and finally stop talking about what they do not understand. God has said his people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. We need to ask for his gift of the infilling of the Holy Spirit. And we need to mortify the deeds of the flesh. It seems so many aroun dhere really need to ask God to give them patience, and love for others. Its really time to grow up and mature in the Word, stop running around pointing a finger, and instead looking towards God. So again, please by all means, show me what Brother Hagin took out of context. Show me an accurate account of his prophecy that you so greatly claim was false. Then, only then, will it even be worth the debate. So we aren't going on heresay, but instead are going on accurate information.


Mitch Miller

 2004/7/5 8:20
Cherjcd
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 6
Edmonton, Alberta

 Re:

Quote:
Also, do you recall the stories of Jonah, we know sure and well that he was a Prophet, yet at one time in his life, he did not get the message clearly, and would not stand on what God had told him to. Are you saying because he messed up a Prophecy then, that he was False as well? We are so quick to call someone a False Prophet, because WE don't see every letter of what they said come to pass.



You said that Jonah did not get his message clearly, but that is not true. He got his message very clear and so did the people that he finally preached to. Certainly Jonah did not really want to give God's message (you could say that he was an extremely reluctant prophet) but to say that he didn't get it clearly is not found in scripture.

As far as Hagin's quote that he would be alive when Jesus came back, it is in one of his books. It was mass produced so should be easy to find. I can check to see if I still have his books. I know that I threw out all of his tapes and may have thrown out his books too after I saw how he took scripture out of context.

I would love to continue to talk to you about the scriptures that Hagin and others take out of context. We can do that somewhat on this forum although I would be happy to correspond with you privately if you would email me. My email address is publicly listed on the email button.

One scripture I would ask you to check out is the one that says that we can cast a mountain into the ocean if we have faith. I ask you to tell me, what is the context? How does Jesus words in other places in the scripture give conditions to this promise? I would ask you to do some work and bring me the answer. If you need help, I would love to help you. However, it is important for you to check out the conditions for this promise first of all for yourself. Kenneth Hagin and others quote this promise from Jesus but never told me what conditions God has attached to the promise. That was one of the many, many things that they took out of context.

Lots of things to discuss, lots of scripture to look at. I'm willing if you are.

I'm off to work now.

Cheryl

 2004/7/5 8:45Profile









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Well, seeing as how the Lord said Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed and be thou cast into the sea, and shall not doubt in is heart, but shall believe those things he saith shall come to pass. He shall have whatsoever he saith.' I would have to say, that my Jesus, is not a liar. So he ment exactly what he said. He doens't put 'restrictions' on it. Because we know that if we are saved, we will not ask something outside of God's perfect will for us. We wont go asking for sinful things, we wont go asking out of greed. We'll go asking out of God's perfect will in our life. The context is just what it says in the Scripture, they could not believe Jesus cursed the tree, and it withered, and Jesus told them right then, what Faith in God can do. It can move mountains for us, it can heal us, it can make us prosper, it can raise the dead. And Jesus will get glroy for all of it. What exactly, do you think is a 'restriction' on the Word of God?

But yes, as for this book of Hagin's, I'd love to know the title of it, and what you seem to think is out of context. I would love to help you understand the Word of God more fully, and move into a stronger relationship with our Father.

As for Jonah, yes, he got the message correct. But he certainly had no plans of doing what the Lord instructed him untill he was in the belly of a great fish. So all I'm saying, is that many of us will chose to think highly of Jonah, who would not open his mouth and say what God gave him, untill something HUGE happened in his life. But we will certianly be very quick to condemn a person who is very quick to speak when God moves them to speak. Its a very common practice of the Devil, attack the ones who speak out, and love the ones who keep quiet. We need to learn a little bit of how our enemy works I'm afraid. He has us sit and attack people based on 'ideas' not on Scripture. There has still not been one onunce of total truth to any arguement that has been given to me. Nobody has showed me one single piece of Scripture that Hagin took out of context. And even if you found one, have you never done the same? Since the moment you gave your life to Christ, were you 100% correct on every single part of the Bible? I dont think so. But I do know, that Brother Hagin, died a true Prophet of God. And I do know, that when I pass away years and years from now, unless the Lord comes first, I will be seeing him in Heaven. There is no Godly way to dispute that fact. So again, please, lets go to the Word, yes I know what Deuteronomy 18 says. And if something Brother Hagin said, never came to pass, then yes, it wasn't spoken from God was it? But show me one person, other than Jesus, who has EVER heard the Lord correctly in every single thing they did.


Mitch

 2004/7/5 8:59









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You say that Brother Hagin has taken out of context what Jesus said about Having Faith in God. Why dont you show me where you see he has taken it out of context. I'd really love to help you out some, and see you grow more in Christ.


Mitch

 2004/7/5 9:09





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