SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Kenneth Hagin and the Laughing Revival.

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page )
PosterThread
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Thanks for the welcome, nothing like jumping straight into a fire.

Like I said I have not seen the video, so granted saying anything about it would be putting my neck on the block. What I mean by middle road is not the one of compromise but the one of application of scriptural truths. eg LawvsGrace


sermonindex wrote:


I tend with many saints of the past to stay within the realm of scripture, revealed truth given us from heaven. .




What are the boundary lines then? What are your 'realms of scripture' when it comes to the manifestation on the spirit?
I know I am digressing from the content of the video, but lets use it to find the truth about what is of the Lord or not. I may be missinformed but didn't John Wesley have strange things happen in his meetings.

Quote:

Just think about it LAUGHING I just don't see it.

Is that something that you've seen in the word or your own personal 'seeing'.

And Amen to everything else you said, I enjoy your stuff. :-)


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/7/4 19:01Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37222
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
Thanks for the welcome, nothing like jumping straight into a fire.


hehe yea I really dont enjoy talking and going into these things primarly I love just talking about scripture and about the deep things of God. :-)

Quote:
I know I am digressing from the content of the video, but lets use it to find the truth about what is of the Lord or not. I may be missinformed but didn't John Wesley have strange things happen in his meetings.


Thats a great point yes in Church history many bizare things have happened but they are all in within boundaries setup in the scriptures. Here is a great excerpt from the text transcript of the message: [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=282]Ten Shekels and a Shirt by Paris Reidhead[/url] (*I really encourage you to listen to this message).

"This is the difference between twentieth century preaching and the preaching of John Wesley. Wesley was a preacher of righteousness that exalted the holiness of God. When he would stand there with the two to three hour sermons that he was accustomed to deliver in the open air and he would exalt the holiness of God, and the law of God, and the righteousness of God, and the justice of God, and the wisdom of His requirements! AND THE JUSTICE OF HIS WRATH AND HIS ANGER! Then he would turn to sinners and tell them of the enormity of their crimes and their open rebellion and their treason, and their anarchy, and THE POWER OF GOD WOULD SO DESCEND UPON THE COMPANY, that on one occasion it is reliably reported that when the people dispersed there were 1800 people LYING ON THE GROUND, UTTERLY UNCONSCIOUS! Because they had a revelation of the holiness of God and in the light of that they'd seen the enormity of their sins and God had so penetrated their minds and hearts that they had FALLEN TO THE GROUND!

It wasn't only in Wesley's day. It was also in America, New Haven, Connecticut, Yale. A man by the name of John Wesley Redfield had continuous ministry for three years in and around New Haven. Culminating in the great meetings in the Yale Ball, the first of the Yale Balls' back in the 18th century. The policemen were accustomed during those days, if they saw someone lying on the ground, to go up and smell his breath. Because if he had alcohol on his breath they'd lock him up, but if he didn't, he had Redfield's disease. And all you needed to do if anyone had Redfield's disease was just take him into a quiet place and leave him until he came too. Because if they were drunkards, they'd stop drinking, and if they were cruel, they'd stop being cruel, and if they were immoral, they gave up their immorality. If they were thieves, they returned what they had. For as they had seen the holiness of God, and seen the enormity of their sin, the Spirit of God had DRIVEN THEM DOWN INTO UNCONSCIOUSNESS because of the weight of their guilt! And somehow in the overspreading of the power of God, sinners repented of their sin and came savingly to Christ."

[i]from the text transcript of Ten shekels and a shirt by Paris Reidhead.[/i] [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=585&forum=34&1]Full Transcript[/url]

I was also reading in some of the letters on Revival that Charles G. Finney wrote to many ministers and one touches on the subject of the occourence of people falling down in His meetings. And he draws a very clear line between a falling down over anguish of sin and revelation of God, over the more dubious kind of fanatical excitement that would render the body in a spasmodic enthusasim.

"I have by no means done with the subject of excitement as connected with revivals of religion. In every age of the church, cases have occurred in which persons have had such clear manifestations of divine truth as to prostrate their physical strength entirely. This appears to have been the case with Daniel. He fainted and was unable to stand. Saul of Tarsus seems to have been overwhelmed and prostrated under the blaze of divine glory that surrounded him. I have met with many cases where the physical powers were entirely prostrated by a clear apprehension of the infinitely great and weighty truths of religion." - from finney's letter.

He also draws a very clear distinction between the use of the mind during these occourences and persists that the intelligent thought patterns should be unhindered during these manifestations but as he would say even:

"But the excitement produced when the Holy Ghost reveals God to the soul is totally different from this. It is not only consistent with the clearest and most enlarged perceptions of the intelligence, but directly promotes and produces such perceptions. Indeed it promotes the free and unembarrassed action of both the intelligence and the will." - from finney's letter.

Please take the time to read this letter:
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3772]LETTERS ON REVIVALS--No. 8[/url]

--

There are many other examples from Church History that if looking at in the right light you would realize there is a drast difference better much of the phenomena going on in Chrisitan circles in our day. Well I am sure the same things were happened in the past but they were quickly identified for what they were, they werent labeled, doctrinized and apporoved and promoted as many dubious characters are doing in our day.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/7/4 19:24Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Maybe to some it up, I think that Art Katz' Spirit of truth sums allot of what I feel, Where he questions the phenomenon, but does give room for the fact that people, in his grace may have been touched etc.

People are so desperate to have some 'touch' from God that sometimes drinking from muddy springs is the only thing open to thirsty people.

The hope that we have is that He is building his Church and everything that can be shacken will most definitley be shacken. Mr Hagin will stand before God and if he was right or wrong he will have to give an account.

About Wesley and co, God how we need it so people can get properly saved.

Zeke :-)


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/7/4 19:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:
....Here is a few quotations from a book called "Charismatic Choas" on Hagin,...



First off I'd like to ask, instaed of telling me what some author wrote into a book, why not show me actual Scripture where God has said that what Brother Hagin has taught is false. We know that the Bible was written by Men, through the unction of the Holy Spirit, we know that all the writers spoke in Tongues. We know Paul himself said he was grateful he spoke in Tongues more than those in Corinth, who we also know were doing it out of the Perfect Will of God. So there is no way to contest, that Speaking in Tongues is for Christians yesterday, and today.

As for what some of this book you quoted from said, If we do not believe that 'We will have what we say' Then we are calling God a liar..and we know that It is impossible for God to lie.

I'll not spend alot of time pushing this subject on you Sir, I understand what its like to want to twist certain scriptures for your own good. I will however keep you in my prayers, and ask my Father in Heaven to reveal his Mighty Word to you.

Thank you for the Godly debate, I really enjoy it. I would like however, to talk Scripture, lets not worry about what Hagin says, or what any other teacher says. Lets worry about what our God Above has said in his Holy Written Word.

So Let me end asking you this Question, and I mean no offense, just want to know where you stand. Do you believe that Gods Word, the Bible we have today, such as KJV, or smoe of the Newer Translations, are Compltely accurate, do you think that every single Word of it, is correct, and divinely written?

Sorry if any of what I've said seems harsh to you Brother, I dont mean it to be, I have never been one to debate much, but I have a Passion for Christ that will always get me to stand up for his Word.


Thank you for your time,
Mitch Miller

 2004/7/4 20:44
Cherjcd
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 6
Edmonton, Alberta

 Re: Kenneth Hagin and the Laughing Revival.

Quote:
Thank you for the Godly debate, I really enjoy it. I would like however, to talk Scripture, lets not worry about what Hagin says, or what any other teacher says. Lets worry about what our God Above has said in his Holy Written Word.



Hi,

My first time here. I would like to add that it is important what Kenneth Hagin said or other teachers. We are required by scripture to test all things and we are also warned that there will be false teachers who will draw disciples after themselves.

I am not adverse to the practice of spiritual gifts. In fact I go to a Pentecostal church and I have experienced the baptism of the Spirit so I understand the other side of the story. However when one goes into the spiritual gifts, one must never forget that there are going to be counterfeits of the gifts as well as false teachers. To ignore that is to ignore scripture and ignore the many warnings.

Our ministry has produced an excellent video documenting all the signs to watch for in false teachers. These areas to watch fit the false teachings of the cults (Mormon, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, etc) as well as teachings from those who are in the Faith Movement or the Latter Reign Movement. The video is called Christian Counterfeiters. I have just put the first part of the video on line at [url=http://mmoutreach.org/aberrant/cc_video.htm]http://mmoutreach.org/aberrant/cc_video.htm[/url]

The video is well documented and delves into major teachings such as who do they teach Jesus is, what do they think of the Bible, etc.

I would recommend any one that is seriously wanting to understand where false teachers deviate from God's word to have a look at the video and pull out the Bible and check these teachers out.

This spring we just finished production of our latest video called Dilemma over Demons. It is an expose of the current teaching sweeping through the church that Christians can be demon possessed. We document point by point the false teachings of this movement from such teachers as Bob Larson including clips from his videos. We then compare each teaching to the Bible. I have a short clip of the Dilemma Over Demons video at
[url=http://mmoutreach.org/video/dod.htm]http://mmoutreach.org/video/dod.htm[/url] Scroll down to the bottom to pick either Real Player or Windows Media Player or view the clip. Or you may order either video or DVD on our PayPal ordering pages at
[url=http://mmoutreach.org/order/video.htm]http://mmoutreach.org/order/video.htm[/url]

I hope this helps!

Cheryl

 2004/7/4 21:24Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37222
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
I'll not spend alot of time pushing this subject on you Sir, I understand what its like to want to twist certain scriptures for your own good. I will however keep you in my prayers, and ask my Father in Heaven to reveal his Mighty Word to you.


I am not bending the Word of God to my own good. I desire so strongly for the truth of God to be manifest in my life and I am not willing to settle for comprimises of that full revelation of God. The Lord is our teacher and the Holy Spirit will personally guide us into all truth.

[b]1 John 2:27[/b] - But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Quote:
Do you believe that Gods Word, the Bible we have today, such as KJV, or smoe of the Newer Translations, are Compltely accurate, do you think that every single Word of it, is correct, and divinely written?


My personal preference for english translations in the King James Version 1611. There are small varations in most greek and hebrew manuscripts but I would say that the best manuscripts were used in the KJV bible translation. Many argue that the newer manuscripts found that they use for the new translations are more accurate. As for the words yes I believe the orginal languages were divinely inspired and written and that the bibles we have, have that inspiration but I would refrain from every single letter.. there are mistakes or not clear translations of original words but we can have faith in the KJV and other bibles as the Word of God.

Quote:
First off I'd like to ask, instaed of telling me what some author wrote into a book, why not show me actual Scripture where God has said that what Brother Hagin has taught is false


Personally I have not felt led to look into his writings and especially to look into them just to prove the fallacies in his doctrine. I will try and take a look at some writings and get you more detailed ways that Kenneth Hagin taught false doctrines. Yes I do hope this can be a godly discussion with the intent for both of us and others to get closer to God and understand more about his servants and His word.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/7/4 21:39Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37222
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
I am not adverse to the practice of spiritual gifts. In fact I go to a Pentecostal church and I have experienced the baptism of the Spirit so I understand the other side of the story. However when one goes into the spiritual gifts, one must never forget that there are going to be counterfeits of the gifts as well as false teachers. To ignore that is to ignore scripture and ignore the many warnings.


Thank you sister Cheryl to share your heart and testimony about this topic. Also you have shared your resource in a tasteful manner I suggest everyone watches this free video clip from that site: [url=http://mmoutreach.org/video/cc_1.ram]Watch part 1: Look to the Leader[/url] - This video looks at the leaders of movements that have veried from the scriptures: Jevovah Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventist Church, The Worldwide Church of God, and then goes into movements such as: Word Faith. *(I would note the way the video approaches and teaches on the problem of this subject is not done perfectly or to my taste, but I think its worth watching).

EDIT: After watching the entire 30 minute video I would say its not very conclusive and it even misquotes some of the Word Faith preachers, who do teach falsities but I am sure they could have been abit more careful in how they choose the quotes.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/7/4 21:59Profile
Cherjcd
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 6
Edmonton, Alberta

 Re:

I understand the pull that these type of teachers have because they seem to have such power and closeness to God. I myself followed Hagin for several years about 25 years ago. It was not until I got involved in apologetics to reach out to the cults, that I started studying popular Faith Teachers and their teachings. I was amazed at how easy it is for a charismatic preacher to take verses out of context and to convince Christians that they (the Faith teachers) alone had the full truth. I am grateful that God pulled me away from those false teachings and gave me a heart to reach out not only to the lost in the cults, but also to Christians who have been deceived by false teachers in the church.

My husband and I plan on going into full time ministry to reach the cults and aberrant Christian movements in a couple of years. Right now I have two web sites on line dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses and other movements and we are producing documentary videos and teaching tapes informing Christians how to witness to the cults as well as how to be alert to the false teachings that have crept into the church.

Cheryl

 2004/7/4 22:44Profile









 Re:

Hi again,
I was not saying that it isn't totally unimportant what Hagin has said, I realize that we have numerous false teachers in our World today. I myself, grew up around quite a few. And still see more and more with each passing day. We have taken the Bible and watered it down to fit our lifestyles, that we stray from the true Word and allow anyything to go on in many Churches. Homosexuality is accepted in quite a number, Abortion is accepted, the list grows on and on. Many people today try to just ignore some scriptures or twist them to meet their own needs. If you do not like Brother Hagin, thats one thing, but to act as if he is a False teacher, ESPECIALLY when you tell me you have never taken the time to even read one book he's written, then you are stepping over a line. I have heard him, and I know he was annointed to Preach, and Teach, and called at times to be a Prophet. I am concered today that the Body of Christ is falling completely away from our Great Comission. And if you will recall, Jesus Christ said 'Thus it is written, and thus it behoved, Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentence and remission of Sins should be preached in my name in all the world. But tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem untill you be endued with power from on High.' We know that he was speaking of the Holy Ghost, the promise of the Father. We know that on the day of Pentacost, a great outpouring began. And that same Holy Spirit is here for believers today. So I guess the question I have for you all is this, where does what I am saying, differ from what you get out of the Scripture? Where do you not see, the necessity to recieve the Promose of our Father? The Baptism of the Holy Spirit? Jesus told them to wait, they couldn't not be a witness untill they had it.


Mitch Mller

 2004/7/4 22:50
Cherjcd
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 6
Edmonton, Alberta

 Re:

Quote:
If you do not like Brother Hagin, thats one thing, but to act as if he is a False teacher, ESPECIALLY when you tell me you have never taken the time to even read one book he's written, then you are stepping over a line.



Hello Mitch,

What you have said may be true of others on this forum who have not read or followed Mr. Hagin, but that is not true for me. I was very much enthralled with Mr. Hagin's teachings at one point in my life. I read many of Kenneth Hagin's books and had a large bag full of his audio tapes that I listened to every day. I even considered taking his Rhema training course many years ago. I did not have the money at the time so I prayed very earnestly about the matter and I was clearly directed by the Lord to not be involved in his ministry training course.

Since that time I have come to see many things that I was blind to when I followed Hagin. One thing that was very important to me when I followed Hagin was Hagin's revelation that he said that Jesus gave to him. He said that he would be alive when Jesus came back. I remember well when he gave this revelation and I have been to Kenneth Hagin's meetings and met him personally. What I can tell you now is that Kenneth Hagin is a false prophet and Jesus certainly did not tell him that he would be alive when Jesus returned. As you well know, Mr. Hagin has recently passed away and his death proves that his words were not from Jesus.

We are required from scripture to test all things. Test Kenneth Hagin. Deuteronomy 18:19-21 so that if a prophet speaks a word in God's name and that word does not come to pass that prophet will die. We are told in verse 22 that we will know a false prophet when they speak a false prophecy or speak in the name of other gods. We are not to be afraid of them and we are certainly not to follow them.

Cheryl

 2004/7/4 23:03Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy