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 Re: No Condemnation!


Compliments wrote:
After looking at my life and the darkness therein, maybe Fred is right. I certainly can't see, hear or walk right, spiritually speaking. I prayed for light, I got darkness. I prayed for wisdom, I got foolishness. I prayed for knowledge and understanding, I got confusion. I prayed for love and got a hard heart.

Fred you might be right. How can God be glorified in a body that is Dark, Foolish, Confused, and Hard Hearted?...

...He didn't need my eyes to see the thoughts and the intents of my heart, because my eyes can't see that. And If I ever saw my heart, I'd probably fall down dead. Our hearts are so wicked it says, "who can know it?".

Hang on in there, Brother. Have you read John Bunyan's testimony, "Grace abounding to the Chief of Sinners"? He went through a time of terrible condemnation and darkness. He said he preached "as a dying man to dying men". He was constantly tormented with thoughts of his own sin, and even imagined at one point tht he had actually committed the unpardonable sin.

Thus does the Enemy of our souls confuse, accuse and torment.

But the Lord brought him through that "dark night of the soul" as someone called it. And He will bring you through.

Most who earnestly seek to follow the Lord fully go through this type of experience.

There is a way through that dark tunnel and out the other side. Don't give up. [i]God[/i] hasn't given up on you!

in Him


 2007/8/20 16:49

 Re: Your Favorite False Prophet


Pentecost wrote:
Grace and Peace to all on SI!

The following quotes are older ones, spoken from the mouths of many of today's leading "ministers'.

If you have proof of any of these quotes being publically repented of by these false prophets, I'd be more than willing to delete the quote in question.

Be warned, reader! These quotes come from LEADING ministers in the church world.

May Jesus Christ be Glorified in the exposing of false prophets and wolves.

Let us try with God's Word to solve this mystery of who is the greatest false prophet!!!!!!

I believe the some of the first words recorded were "DID GOD REALLY"

John 8:44-46
[color=0000FF]44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
EX 2John 10:10
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
EX 3
1 John 2:4-7
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
Ex 4
1 John 2:22-25
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
Ex 5
Matt 4:5-7
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
"'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'"
7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
EX 6
Matt 4:8-11
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
(from New International Version)
EX 7
Matt 13:37-41
37 He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
(from New International Version)
EX 8
Luke 4:3-7
3 The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread."
4 Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone.'"
5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 So if you worship me, it will all be yours."
(from New International Version)
EX 9
Luke 8:11-13
The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
(from New International Version)
EX 1
John 8:43-47
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
(from New International Version)
Ex 11
Acts 13:8-11
9 Then Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight at Elymas and said, 10 "You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? 11 Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind, and for a time you will be unable to see the light of the sun."
(from New International Version)
Ex 12
Eph 4:26-32
26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold. 28 He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
(from New International Version)
EX 13
James 3:15-18
15 Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.
(from New International Version)
EX 14
1 Peter 5:8-9
8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9 Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.
(from New International Version)
EX 15
1 John 3:7-10
8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
(from New International Version)
EX 16
1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
(from New International Version)
Ex 17
2 Tim 3:12-4:1
12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
(from New International Version)
Ex 20
Rev 20:10
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(from New International Version)

Through Christ and HIS sacrifice and HIS resurrection to heaven and the forgiveness and atonement for sin at the Cross and making HIM SAVIOUR, LORD AND KING AND therefore being indwelt with His Holy Spirit to guide us in the understanding of the Holy Scriptures is only means provided for one to distinguish a truth from a lie. They are both absolutely necessary. In singleness they will not equip anyone in discerning of good from evil.[/color]

 2007/8/20 16:52

Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219

 Re: Your Favorite False Prophet

Many of these quotes (especially those done in the spirit of defensiveness) appear to becoming from a heart filled with anger and hurt. I must agonizingly say I've said (much less severe) things in that same defensive spirit during seasons of great opposition. I hate to admit it, but as a preacher I have allowed myself to be put on the defense only to make stupid public statements before. not good.

Some of these quote also appear to be not given in their full context. I do not know many of the teachers. When it comes to the section on being "little gods", however, I know that what MANY (not all but many) of these men are attempting to convey is not what we think. When taken in full context it looks much less diabolical. For instance, most all on this site (if I'm not mistaken even brother Greg) like John G. Lake and have been blessed by his ministry. Yet did you know that he taught the same thing about being little gods? Read his sermon "Triune Salvation" for a good example. He certainly was not attempting to say that we are basically on the same level with YHWH God or preaching something on par with what the mormons teach. Rather he was attempting to convey the scriptural teaching (albeit in less traditional language) that we are sons and daughters bearing in His image. Jesus quoted Psalms 82:6 in John 10:34... Psalms 82:6
6 "I said, 'You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High.'
(which needs to be taken in the context of verse 1...) Jesus quotes this in John 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' ? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

There is clear teaching in scripture concerning this. Jesus Himself adds at the end of His quotation from the Psalms that the "...scripture cannot be broken." This means this is not a false concept it just must be interpreted correctly. Now I don't know the way it was being preached by the teachers mentioned below...but I have a hard time believing that it is being taught the same way that a mormon would teach it. Instead it is most likely being taught as was taught by John G. Lake and other early pioneers in the context of being sons of God.
This particular quote I am having a hard time finding fault with . . .
Kenneth Hagin: "I'm tired of hearing that religious jargon that we're tired and lonely; we're the meekest and the lowliest...Believe in God! Believe in yourself! There never was a person who succeeded in life who didn't believe he could do it. You may argue, "But I don't want to be egotistical..." That's a lie the devil concocted to cause people not to succeed. Somebody's always talking about being humble. There are some people who are so humble they are proud of their humility! Religious people will tell you "Don't every get conceited..." but the devil tried to rob people through false modesty too...God can't do anything on this earth without a man or woman who will do it for's God's plan of action; therefore we need to begin to believe in ourselves." ("How to Make the Dream God gave you Come True" Faith Library Publications:1981)

Now perhaps I skimmed over some key words or missed something here, but to me this sounds like good advice. False humility is a wicked thing, and there is nothing spiritual or godly about being defeated and wimpering all the time. Maybe someone could clue me in here . . .

Certainly there are other teachings that I simply have no desire to defend for I find them false as well. However, I think that we need to be better bereans and not mutilate a message and make some kind of frankenstein style mish-mash of quotes to discredit someone. I'm sure you could take many quotes but the saintly Leonard Ravenhill and take it out of context to make him appear heretical. For instance..."Jesus didn't die on the cross, He died in Gethsemane..." Now we all know what He means, but if posted in a manner attempting to show he was a false teacher . . . you know what I mean.

Being a berean is about much more than just finding quotes from an already biased "apologetics" web-site. (which are ridiculous for the most part-as they thrive off of innacurate info, and gross misquotes...) Being a berean is about taking a message in full context of everything being said and holding it up against the scripture. This can't be done through using 3 sentence should know all know this. I would hate for someone to judge my preaching like that.

As for repentance for these statements - that would be hard to find since most retractions (as in secular newspapers) is given hardly any coverage. Mistakes, however, are always headline news. Shame on us for this!

Poured Out,


 2007/8/20 16:59Profile

Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA


I appreciate the heart through which you posted.
Very good things to think on even though I do have some very strong oppinions about these men and do see them as people who propagate gross heresy for their own greedy purposes.

Kenneth Hagin: "I'm tired of hearing that religious jargon that we're tired and lonely; we're the meekest and the lowliest...Believe in God! Believe in yourself! There never was a person who succeeded in life who didn't believe he could do it. You may argue, "But I don't want to be egotistical..." That's a lie the devil concocted to cause people not to succeed. Somebody's always talking about being humble. There are some people who are so humble they are proud of their humility! Religious people will tell you "Don't every get conceited..." but the devil tried to rob people through false modesty too...God can't do anything on this earth without a man or woman who will do it for's God's plan of action; therefore we need to begin to believe in ourselves." ("How to Make the Dream God gave you Come True" Faith Library Publications:1981)

Now I can't offer any particularly strong argument against this statement but coupled with the prosperity "gospel" that Hagin taught this statement reeks of flesh and pride. Like John the baptist said "He must increase, I must decrease."
The key to christian success is not in believing that I can do it but rather it's in believing God when He says that He has no respect of persons. What He did for John Wesley He'll do for me if seek Him for it and my motivation is right. God has done a very thorough job of stripping me of all confidence in myself and putting all my confidence in Him for apart from Him I can do nothing. In my flesh there is no good thing. I don't believe in me and don't think that I ever will again, but I do believe that God is faithful to the uttermost and is more than able to make any one of us the person that turns his generation upside down for Christ.
The focus to me seems to be [b]WAY[/b] off in the statement. The focus is on [b]ME[/b] instead of on [b]GOD[/b].
That's my take on it anyway.

Jeff Mollman

 2007/8/20 17:26Profile

Joined: 2007/8/20
Posts: 3


Hi Jeff.

I understand that these quotes are all over the Net and should be taken in context... I agree completely, Beloved.

I do, however, hold the actual videos to most of these quotes and statements such as "The Blood did not atone" by men such as Copeland and the late Hagin are repeated in various meetings and times.

Benny Hinn himself states that Christ and satan became one.

I again hold the Kenneth Copeland Reference edition Bible and on Page 75 he states that satan conquered Jesus Christ on the cross and took His Spirit to the dark regions of hell.

I could go on, but let this suffice.

These are not statements made on the spur of the moment; these are men who have repeatedly stated these things.

Again, I hold videos of these men stating these things over and over again.

These men have not made simple mistakes on Christology and the Blood Atonement; these men are wolves in sheep's clothing who are not Regenerate based on their own professions of the Blood Atonement and the Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary.

We must seek God for the salvation of these money hungry false prophets before their condemnation goes from this life into the next, where there is no turning back for them.

Oh that God would save these wicked men from their own devices!

Galatians 1:1-10 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

 2007/8/20 17:54Profile


Mseaman, trust me, you haven't offended me, and I knew that you were not laughing at me. 8-)

 2007/8/20 20:06


Running2win said: Ah, now I see what you're saying and feel much empathy. I can't really express the depth of it in words but I am also overwhelmed and often almost to the point of despair over the wretchedness of my own heart. Honestly, I don't pray much for revival in the church or in America because when I kneel to pray all that I can see is my own wretchedness and my own desperate- DESPERATE need for revival.

Thank you for being discreet, I don't think your off your rocker, I think you've spoken truth and spoken into my heart. The LORD has His way of saving us from our own miseries. I haven't heard from the LORD in years, I haven't felt His presence in years, if there is a cause for all this, I can't see it.

But you know the stupid thing is, I went down by the sea shore today only to pray the same prayer I've prayed in times past, "LORD whatever you have to do do it". Anyone else would be in a mental hospital by now, or jumped off the Tallahassee Bridge.

Thanks Brother for your words of comfort and hope.

 2007/8/20 20:20


Compliments... you hear from the Lord every time you open His Word. I know what those desert times feel like, I know exactly what you're going thru, and at times God does allow us "wallow" as it were.

But we can not judge Him to be inactive in our lives because we dont "feel" anything. Thats kinda whats wrong with the church today, brother... everyone wants experience, but what we need is substance.

Whenever I am feeling dry, do you know what I do? I dig into Matthew Henry. Just the way he wrote, and the style of expository teaching he did... it's warm and deep and moving. Not a bunch at one time, read a little scripture and meditate on it... then let ol' Matt minister to you... it usually does the trick for me.

Most importantly tho... prayer.


 2007/8/21 8:02

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