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seanjol
Member



Joined: 2004/11/12
Posts: 55
Charleston, SC

 Re:

Jayme,

You said,

Quote:
I cannot think as myself being any greater than moses, elijah, david, Jeremiah, elishah, and so many other that gave their whole life to serve God. jut because I had the oportunity to give my life to jesus.



There is no greater privilege than to have a relationship with Jesus. No Law, no Sabbath, not even creation is as precious to God. We were made by Him and for Him. Jesus thought so much of this opportunity that He said,

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11

Jesus said that I may be the least in the Kingdom of heaven but still be greater than Moses, Elijah, David, Jeremiah, etc. I am greater than these men, not because of me or the Law or the Sabbath or what I can do to please God. I am greater because I have the eternal God dwelling within me, Jesus Christ.

If you have a relationship with Christ, not with the Law, you too can be the least in the kingdom of heaven. The law only points to Christ, it doesn't in any way validate our salvation, before or after our salvation in Christ.

So you can be greater than these old testament men.

I pray for their zeal here on earth.

Sean


_________________
Sean

 2007/10/7 22:34Profile
thomasm
Member



Joined: 2007/8/17
Posts: 116
Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

 Re: Romans two

To understand Romans two we have to start at Romans one and carry the thought though to Romans eight. Forgive me in advance for the length of this responds.

In [Rom;1; 14-17]Paul is making his argument. verse 16 and 17 "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes; first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written; "The righteous will live by faith." "

Faith from beginning to end, not starting with faith and finishing with the law.

Rom 1;18 to 3;20 Paul is revealing the wrath of God that is being revealed, against all ungodliness, Law or no law , no one is justified by works because every one has failed.

He sums up this in rom;3; 19-20 "Now we know that whatever the Law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather , through the law we become conscious of sin."

John 3;16-21 Verse 17-18 "For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes ion him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

Before Jesus came , the whole world was under God's wrath, this is what Paul is talking about, no one is righteous, Jesus came to deliver us from that wrath, through simple faith in Him.


Rom 3; 21 to 5;11 Paul introduces a righteousness apart from the law, to which the law and prophets testify, the argument he started in rom; ch 1.

Rom 3;22-23; "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

Rom 5; 12- 21.
Adam brought condemnation for all, Jesus brought righteousness for all who believe in Him.

rom; 5;20-21 Why was the law of Mose given?
"The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

What?Law given so we would sin more? Whats Paul talking about?
Lets go back to 3;19 "so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God."
If we have a righteousness of our own, why would we seek God for His. Rom 11; 32" For God bound all men over to disobedience so he may have mercy on them all."

Rom 6; Paul starts a new thought, though it is still linked to the first chapter, righteousness by faith. If we forget where it started we lose his train of thought given to him by the Holy Spirit.

6;1 "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the father , we too may live a new life."

The big question, now that Jesus has washed our past sins away, what now, go on sinning so that grace may increase? God forbid. Paul shows us how, apart from the law. When Christ died we died with him, The sinful nature was destroy, if we will accept it. Rendering that which Adam past down to us powerless. Verse 6 and 7.

rom 6;11-14 Count yourself dead to sin, place yourself by faith into his death, so you can be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. We no longer have to give in to sin, because it has lost it's power through Jesus.

14" For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

I'll come back to this verse, in rom 7.

rom 6;15-23 'Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!"

1John 5;18" We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God {speaking of Jesus} keeps him safe, and the evil one does not touch him."

We need to offer our bodies, mind, soul and spirit on to Jesus to be lead by His Spirit. Not after having been set free, offer them back to sin.
We cannot keep ourselves, but must totally trust Jesus to keep us safe from the evil one. Or the sinful nature, he accomplished this by His indwelling, and God the father placed us in Him, where the evil one dare not come, but this is by faith, you have to believe it before you will see it. Abide in Him.

Rom 7;1-4 Again Paul continues rom 1;17, showing how this freedom was obtained.
1"...that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives." What law? All of it.

7;2-3, Speaking of adultery, clearly a commandment, Paul show how death frees us from this law.

7;4 " So my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God."

I'm covinced Paul is speaking of all the law, not just ceremonial, adultery is a commandment, why would he use this as an example?

7;5-6 "For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death."

The commandment stirred up the sinful nature. This is another way of saying; rom5;20-21rom 3;19-20.
"The law was given so trespass might increase," why "so the no one would be declared righteous in his sight" All of us need, Gods mercy, which only comes by the faith in Jesus, our Lord.

rom 7;7-25 "Is the law sin? Certainly not!"
The law of God is holy, but it was weakened by the sinful nature. Paul says that the law revealed sin to him. Rom 8;3-4

7;7[...For I would not have known what it was to covet if the law had not said, "Do not covet.""

Another commandment, which law did we die to, in Christ? The law was given to reveil sin in sinful man, and make us see how unholy we are, so that through Christ, God could have mercy on us, who cry out to him, or call on his name. For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

This ties Ch 6;14"...not under law, but under grace." This is clearly all the law.
In rom 7; 7-28, Paul was speaking of life under the law before he beleived in Christ, which brought him to death, and led him to Christ, who justifies the wicked by grace, through faith in Him. For when did Paul learn the law, it was at a very young age.

Rom 7;24 [...who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God -through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Rom 8;1-11 Life in the Spirit.

So romans two is about the wrath that Jesus came to deliver us from, and to warn about judging people by the law, which we all have failed at, and are freely justified by His Blood and only His blood.

Since we died with Christ, we are no longer under Law, but under grace, from beginning to end.
This includes the sabbath. The only way to be released from the law , is to die with Christ, and be raised up a new creature in Him. This becomes a reality through faith. Not lawlessness, but the righteousness of God in us, Christ Jesus.

love IN CHRIST tom


_________________
Tom weighill

 2007/10/8 0:47Profile









 Re:

Dear brother Seanjol.

Thank you for you reply.

You Quoted what I said:
"""""I cannot think as myself being any greater than moses, elijah, david, Jeremiah, elishah, and so many other that gave their whole life to serve God. jut because I had the oportunity to give my life to jesus."""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please brother, if you are going to quote something I said, at least quote the whole context, or at least say the reason why I said what I said.

This is not a game to catch each other in things that we say. This is a discussion about wheather God's Holy law is still binding to us.

Brother, I might not have expressed myself clearly, but what I meant was

I have never thought of being greater than these Godly men, and don't intend to. The fact that I will be in heaven is sufficent for me. I am not interested in whom is going to be greater or more important, as long as I am there to give praises to my Holy God and his Holy Son for as long as eternety lasts.

Do I have a relationship with His Son now? How could I not, for all He has done, does and continues to do for me.

Is there any greater privileged than having a relatinship with Jesus? certainly not. If I did not have Him.......
I cannot even give you an answer of what my life would be.
For He is my all in all, my creator, My salvation, my hope, my confort, my provider, my
Friend, and helper and most important of all He is the way for me to return to The Glorious Father, without Him I have nothing, I am nothing.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Quote: """"If you have a relationship with Christ, not with the Law, you too can be the least in the kingdom of heaven. The law only points to Christ, it doesn't in any way validate our salvation, before or after our salvation in Christ.""""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As I said before, I do have a wonderful relatinship with Christ. and it is this very relationship that compells me to keep His holy commandments, Ten commandments.

Without the law, there is not sin. if there is not sin, no need for a sacrifice, Jesus died in vain?


James said.

James 2:8-10 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

What is this royal law that James is talking about.

Jesus talks about two great laws.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

what are these Laws and the prophets that Jesus is talking about here?

Just after reading the Ten commandments to israel, Moses said in Deuteronomy what the essence of the Ten commandments are.

Deuteronomy 6:4-6 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! 5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. 6 " And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.


Do you see any similarities Here???

For you to concider..


When Jesus talked about the two great commandments and He mentions that in these two great laws hang all the laws and prophets, Is Jesus talking about the Ten commandments?

James talks about the Royal Law, This law that is called Royal was mentioned just once in the whole bible, and James is talking about love you neighbour as yourself.
What Law states this very commandment?


When the nichodemus asked Jesus about what he should do to enter in to life. Jesus said.

Matthew 19:17-19 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." 18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "

I will list them again.

You shall not murder,
(Ten commandment N.06)

You shall not commit adultery,
(Ten commandment N.07)

You shall not steal,
(Ten commandment N.08)

You shall not bear false witness,
(Ten commandment N.09)

Honor your father and your mother,
(Ten commandment N.05)

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
(Ten commandment N.10)


Jesus just repeated Six of the Ten Commandments.

I believe that this is the Second Great commandment that Jesus was talking about in matthew 22:39

But in matthew 22:37 He talks about the First Great commandment

Matthew 22:37 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

I ask you brother, How do I love God the way I am supposed to.

Well I believe the answer is found here.

You shall have no other gods before Me.
(Ten commandment N.01)

You shall not make for yourself a carved image
(Ten commandment N.02)

Do not take the name of the LORD your God in vain
(Ten commandment N.03)

Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
(Ten commandment N.04)


You said yourself that it is a privilege to have a relatinship with Jesus, and If you do have one, I am sure that the

With the exception of the 4th commandment, you already keep all the other nines.

Remember what James said.
James 2:9-11 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please people keep writing back to me implying that I am trying to be saved by my works.

You couldn't be further from the truth. I am saved because I gave my life to Jesus, I am saved by faith in Him. But Jesus said it Himself.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

I am saved because Jesus died for me and I accept His sacrifice. He has cleansed me from my sin, Now I have a part with the Father in Heaven because I gave Him my life. and He asked me to Keep His commandments and I do keep them with a glad heart.

I have pleasure in keeping His commandments, not through the minitration of death. because back then if you didn't you would be put to death. But I keep it with the law of liberty, I choose if I want to keep it or not. I am not in bondage to it, for if I choose not to keep I can, but it is throught the law of liberty that I choose to keep it our of my love for Him.

James 1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.


James 2:12-13 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.


Brother your faith without works to back it up, is dead.

Dear brother Seanjol.

Thank you for you reply.

You Quoted what I said:
"""""I cannot think as myself being any greater than moses, elijah, david, Jeremiah, elishah, and so many other that gave their whole life to serve God. jut because I had the oportunity to give my life to jesus."""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please brother, if you are going to quote something I said, at least quote the whole context, or at least say the reason why I said what I said.

This is not a game to catch each other in things that we say. This is a discussion about wheather God's Holy law is still binding to us.

Brother, I might not have expressed myself clearly, but what I meant was

I have never thought of being greater than these Godly men, and don't intend to. The fact that I will be in heaven is sufficent for me. I am not interested in whom is going to be greater or more important, as long as I am there to give praises to my Holy God and his Holy Son for as long as eternety lasts.

Do I have a relationship with His Son now? How could I not, for all He has done, does and continues to do for me.

Is there any greater privileged than having a relatinship with Jesus? certainly not. If I did not have Him.......
I cannot even give you an answer of what my life would be.
For He is my all in all, my creator, My salvation, my hope, my confort, my provider, my
Friend, and helper and most important of all He is the way for me to return to The Glorious Father, without Him I have nothing, I am nothing.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Quote: """"If you have a relationship with Christ, not with the Law, you too can be the least in the kingdom of heaven. The law only points to Christ, it doesn't in any way validate our salvation, before or after our salvation in Christ.""""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As I said before, I do have a wonderful relatinship with Christ. and it is this very relationship that compells me to keep His holy commandments, Ten commandments.

Without the law, there is not sin. if there is not sin, no need for a sacrifice, Jesus died in vain?


James said.

James 2:8-10 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

What is this royal law that James is talking about.

Jesus talks about two great laws.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

what are these Laws and the prophets that Jesus is talking about here?

Just after reading the Ten commandments to israel, Moses said in Deuteronomy what the essence of the Ten commandments are.

Deuteronomy 6:4-6 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! 5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. 6 " And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.


Do you see any similarities Here???

For you to concider..


When Jesus talked about the two great commandments and He mentions that in these two great laws hang all the laws and prophets, Is Jesus talking about the Ten commandments?

James talks about the Royal Law, This law that is called Royal was mentioned just once in the whole bible, and James is talking about love you neighbour as yourself.
What Law states this very commandment?


When the nichodemus asked Jesus about what he should do to enter in to life. Jesus said.

Matthew 19:17-19 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." 18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "

I will list them again.

You shall not murder,
(Ten commandment N.06)

You shall not commit adultery,
(Ten commandment N.07)

You shall not steal,
(Ten commandment N.08)

You shall not bear false witness,
(Ten commandment N.09)

Honor your father and your mother,
(Ten commandment N.05)

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
(Ten commandment N.10)


Jesus just repeated Six of the Ten Commandments.

I believe that this is the Second Great commandment that Jesus was talking about in matthew 22:39

But in matthew 22:37 He talks about the First Great commandment

Matthew 22:37 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

I ask you brother, How do I love God the way I am supposed to.

Well I believe the answer is found here.

You shall have no other gods before Me.
(Ten commandment N.01)

You shall not make for yourself a carved image
(Ten commandment N.02)

Do not take the name of the LORD your God in vain
(Ten commandment N.03)

Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
(Ten commandment N.04)


You said yourself that it is a privilege to have a relatinship with Jesus, and If you do have one, I am sure that the

With the exception of the 4th commandment, you already keep all the other nines.

Remember what James said.
James 2:9-11 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please people keep writing back to me implying that I am trying to be saved by my works.

You couldn't be further from the truth. I am saved because I gave my life to Jesus, I am saved by faith in Him. But Jesus said it Himself.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

I am saved because Jesus died for me and I accept His sacrifice. He has cleansed me from my sin, Now I have a part with the Father in Heaven because I gave Him my life. and He asked me to Keep His commandments and I do keep them with a glad heart.

I have pleasure in keeping His commandments, not through the minitration of death. because back then if you didn't you would be put to death. But I keep it with the law of liberty, I choose if I want to keep it or not. I am not in bondage to it, for if I choose not to keep I can, but it is throught the law of liberty that I choose to keep it our of my love for Him.

James 1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.


James 2:12-13 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.


Brother your faith without works to back it up, is dead.

James 2:17-20 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

So I am saved brother first by my faith in Christ, and second by my works, they have to work together. One without the other is dead.



God bless you brother.

So I am saved brother first by my faith in Christ, and second by my works, they have to work together. One without the other is dead.



God bless you brother.





 2007/10/8 9:26





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