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 True False Prophet

Style of a true false prophet...

[url=]Sermon Taken From Here:[/url]

Are Homosexuals Condemned to Hell?

([i]*Moderator Edit: The content of this post has been removed in keeping with the wishes noted at the end of the article linked.[/i])

 2007/8/18 2:25

Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2653
Nottingham, England

 Re: True False Prophet

Here we go again...

 2007/8/18 3:58Profile

Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: True False Prophet

It is rather an interesting thought process, but its the garden of Eden all over again...Did God really say? It is a sad state that a person would even consider that straight or crooked would be considered as normal as black and white. The major difference is that the bible doesn't say that black or white the kingdom is not for you. He does say that in regards to Homosexuality.

My wife and I have spoken about this issue and have myself come across folk who are homosexual and 'christians'. Can someone be gay and a Christian? Having never had to flesh this out in a real life situation I can't give a yes or no answer.

We have had a situation in our church recently where a man who had been married for 16-17 years left his wife and confessed that he was gay. Apparently he had been gay the whole time. The leadership of the church have subsequently asked him to leave. The crazy thing is that there is a wife and kids who now have a father who has 'comeout into the open'.

Whether this man loves the Lord, I know not, but he had been in the church for a number of years. I think this then is the issue, if the man loves the Lord but has this besetting sin, which in this case in homosexuality, what do we do with him. I agree that he cannot be in the body as a little yeast leavens the whole batch, but what do we do in this case. I feel that you cannot practice homosexuality and actively pursue it as a lifestyle. I think though that God will give you the grace to be able to walk away from such a thing. If there is a real encounter with God I do not think that anyone could openly confess their orientation and not feel the conviction and disapproval of the Lord. Or even a great searching of heart. I do think that whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, and in this case, if the whosoever wants to be saved from their lifestyle, God will save them.

There is a church that caters exclusively to the gay and lesbian community and uses the same reasoning as the article. It was rather sobering to watch them all holding hands and singing 'bind us together lord, bind us together Lord with cords that cannot be broken'. This is a loaded topic as homosexuality, as I have already mentioned is grouped together in a list of other things.

Zeke Oosthuis

 2007/8/18 7:47Profile

Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re: True False Prophet

EDIT- I wrote this post because I originally thought ce4 was saying he was a homosexual believer. I didn't realize he had cut and pasted. My intentions were to lovingly contend with him. It's my fault for not drinking my coffee and waking up before I log onto SI (in that order)! It's also my fault for not spending time with God before I got on the computer. Forgive me. In any case, I've decided to leave what I wrote. Have a wonderful weekend! I've got a graveside service today and I hope we don't get any more rain while I'm in the cemetery! - Bro. Paul

God has asked me to change LOADS of things about my life. But He has NEVER once asked me to leave my relationship or try and change my sexual orientation!

? If your short on time you can click here to go directly to the "clobber" passages interpreted by many in the church to condemn homosexuality.

"Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another. Men with men performed these shameful horrors, receiving in their own personalities the consequences of their perversity" (Romans 1:27 J.B. Phillips).

How does one interpret Rom. 1:27 without seeing clearly that homosexuality is:

1) Unnatural
2) Lustful
3) Shameful
4) Worthy of Punishment

note: I used the J.P. Phillips translation because it was nearby. But I think you can use just about [i]any[/i] translation and arrive at those four points. I think the only way to plausibly refute this scripture is to argue that Paul fallibly adulterated the gospel with his own personal convictions, or that some ancient and biased church father came along after Paul and inserted the "hate" passages to promote an agenda.

Paul Frederick West

 2007/8/18 8:24Profile

Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re: True False Prophet

I would like to comment on the article link that was posted to defend homosexuality.
Are Homosexuals condemned to hell?

I'll tackle only two parts.
John described best God's open invitation in John 3:16 when he wrote that “whosoever” (King James translation) believes in Jesus Christ will not perish. “Whosoever” does not exclude anyone, instead it includes everyone! Simply put, it does not matter if you gay or straight, black or white, male or female. What matters is whether you believe in Jesus Christ or not and have accepted Him as your Lord and Savior.
My Answer.
to believe is not mental assent, but a life style that says you will follow and agree with his teachings. If it was mental assent, then demons and anyone evil could just believe and be saved without making any change to their lifestyle. Im not talking about legalism to the mosiac law, but I am talking about following Jesus' teachings about his righteous requirements to be part of his kingdom.

So if no one is excluded from God's invitation, that only leaves one scenario left. That being that homosexuality is such an evil and perverse sin that it cannot be forgiven. Of course we have to assume for a moment that homosexuality is a sin to explore this idea! But if true, could any sin be so terrible that Christ’s death is incapable of cleansing us from it?
If we accept this premise, the implications are immense, for it means that there is a limit to salvation’s cleansing power. If true, then Christ did not conquer sin, but rather that a single sin conquered Him!

there is no sin that Jesus cannot conquer, but let us remember Jesus died to give us power to conquer sin.
he will not forgive, wash away, cleanse any sin from us, unless we repent. Repent means to turn away from. To change our minds about. We have to agree with him and reject the worlds ideas about sin.
The Nicolations in Rev 2 practiced a salvation of Grace TO sin. Jesus hated it and still does.
Grace isnt just favor, or mercy, or pardon, Grace is so much larger than that, its the power of God to transform a sinner into a saint of God, and he or she will look like a disciple of christ, Holy, pure, peaceable, gentle, kind, merciful, the list goes on.
but this gospel of forgiveness without sanctification makes no sense to me and is so far removed from scripture that its just another gospel altogether.
Paul talked about staying away from those who have a form of Godliness, but denying it's power.

They deny the power to stop their sin. deny his power to keep them holy, and up to his righteous requirements.
He will do it in us, if we come to him and repent of our sins, wanting to change and ask him to cleanse us from our sin's, to cleanse us is more than washing from our record, but washing from our lifestyle.

If for example I get mad at somebody and decide to hate them. and speak evil of them.
Will Jesus cleanse me of this sin?
yes, if, and only if after the Holy spirit convicts me to repent.
So I ask God to forgive me. But I dont change my thought process and still hate that person, well then Im still in sin, still in bondage and still not cleansed from all unrighteousness.
So now I need to power of Jesus Christ to help me to get this out of Me, And he tells me to go and forgive that person and ask them of forgive me. I'll pray for that person, and over time, Jesus not only forgives me, but im actually cleansed from my hatred and evil heart towards the other person. and am now in good standing with God. Now somewhere in there im ok with God because theres a process there, but God wants us right with him and to be right with others.
This process of getting right with God works for just about anything God hates. we have a choice to either agree with God about sin, or follow this false gospel that preaches forgiveness without repenting, or changing, "oh God loves me like I am and dont have to change".
If you follow that false gospel, then yes, you will go to hell with all the other disobedient who will not follow or adhere to his teachings.
My two cents.


 2007/8/18 13:32Profile

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