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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Vice President Dick Cheney's 1994 Prophecy

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pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Krispy,

Is he really, Popeye is a prophet? I never would have thunk it.
Of course Dick Cheney is not a prophet, but you have to admit, he had it right and did it anyway. You see Krispy, it makes no difference to me what party or what the name of the man is, I would post it anyway, because I do not put my trust in any earthly man or any political party.
Jesus said: John 18:36-37
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. [37] Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

It is in Him, and He in us, Jesus Christ our Lord, whose kingdom is not of this world, this is where we should put our trust.

I sure am glad you know my intentions since they have already been posted, but you believe what you want, and as far as politics go if you have read any of my previous post, you know your accusations are false. You folks are the only ones mentioning politics and where you put your trust is your business, as I said before, as for me and my house we will trust in the Lord, for He is our Hope.

Jeremiah 17:5-8
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. [6] For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. [7] Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. [8] For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

Those who trust in man shall be deceived:

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Who is it that fights against the Lord?

Rev. 16:13-15
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. [14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. [15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Rev. 19:19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

We must make sure we are not among them, and our only hope is in the Lord, for

“Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.”

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/8/19 18:13Profile









 Re:

Hi all

Usually I avoid politics and politicians like the plague, but was intrigued by the title of this thread.

Baalam and Caiaphas both prophesied true things. Probably Nostradamus did too.

So maybe godless politicians might as well?

I know nothing of where Dick Cheyney stands spiritually, but even if he's a thoroughly evil man he may still be somehow used by God to further His purposes or even speak something that turns out to be prophetic.

Just because a politician (maybe) prophesies doesn't mean a discussion of it is anything to do with politics. Or that anyone who comments is thereby breaking the SI rules of no politics.

Also, I wonder what would have happened if some Biblical prophets refused to get involved in the affairs of their nation, or even other nations?

Daniel, Jeremiah? Amos? Isaiah...

Let's get this in proportion - screaming "Verboten!" every time the name of a politician is mentioned is surely a bit of an over reaction! Even if some threads did get over political and nasty doesn't mean that this one will.

Yours in Him who is Ruler of the whole Earth

Jeannette

 2007/8/19 18:45
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi LittleGift...

What makes us inclined to think that this statement was a "prophecy?"

A shared thought, belief, or speculation -- like the one private citizen Dick Cheney shared about Iraq in 1994 -- is far from "prophecy" in a Biblical sense. It just indicates that he had an opinion in 1994 that differs from the one he had today. Why? There are a number of possibilities. Since he was no longer in office, it could reflect his outside opinion about the situation in Iraq. It could reflect a difference in what he thought that he knew about Iraq in 1994 from what he thought that he knew in 2003. Or he could simply have altered his "belief" because of ulterior political motivation. The fact is that none of us can know enough to articulate the motive.

Regardless, we should be careful about applying the term "prophet" or "prophecy" to anyone who simply shared a thought or speculation that seemingly came to pass (like Dick Cheney, President Carter, or anyone else). If this were the case, we could apply the term "prophet" to weathermen, scientists or chess players.

There is a huge difference from sharing a speculation or opinion about what could possibly happen in the future (based upon our own knowledgable perspective) from "prophecy."

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2007/8/20 9:32Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi pastorfrin...

No offense is taken. I apologize if my post seemed like an indictment. That certainly wasn't my intention, and I think that another reading of the post will reveal that. Regardless, I didn't mean to articulate that YOU were part of some conspiracy theory. I am only talking about the numerous conspiracy theories that work their way around the internet, some examples of the broadcast media and even in these forums.

Which conspiracy theories? Take your pick! The following are notions that often go reported or assumed by certain vocal individuals around the Internet.

Quote:
1. Bush is an unintelligent man who "cheated" his way through college.
2. Bush is just the "front man" for a government run by a select committee.
3. The war in Iraq is for control of Iraqi oil and/or lucrative defense contracts.
4. Bush is a "wolf in sheep's clothing" who used a war in Iraq to obtain some ulterior motive (other than the removal of a possible threat to the United States).
5. Bush is not a christian, but uses christianity to win favor of gullible, unsuspecting christian voters.
Etc...

These are just a taste of some of the "conspiracy theories" that have been expressed over the last few years! While these are simply a few of the conspiracy theories about the current Administration, there are many more concerning all matters of politics and doctrine. While one or more of these sort of assertions could be at least partially true, they cannot be asserted as fact without underlying, firsthand evidence. To disagree with them as presented, however, does not merit an accusation about "trusting in man."

Please understand that I am not trying to further this conversation by "getting the last word" in a place that frowns upon vain political discussions. I just wanted to answer your question about some of the conspiracy theories that have "run amuck" on the internet. I certainly wouldn't accuse you of this, since I have never witnessed any sort of political discussions from you except a possible involvement in the advancement and justification for a form of Christian pacifism.

In regards to such pacifism, I find your continual posts quite compelling. I'm of age for the draft. I've often questioned myself in regards to what I would do if a draft were reinstituted. Would I go and fight or conscientiously object? Yet currently, I neither agree nor disagree with the notion of pacifism. However, I have prayerfully and thoughtfully chosen to vote and become involved in such legislative matters that I deem important because of a few reasons. Regardless of whether or not anyone feels that I am right or wrong, I believe that I have been careful (and prayerful) about not "trusting in man." In fact, I believe that it is wrong to play the "trust in man" card to someone who simply holds a differing viewpoint on such an issue, particularly when our thoughts are not meant to invoke such a feeling. I believe that a careful inspection of my posts on such matters would reveal that I am especially careful about not reconmmending others to "trust in man," but rather to come to their own conclusion based upon fact.

In these sort of threads, please understand that I am not justifying the actions of the Bush Administration. I simply want to counter some of the often unchecked accusations that are presented with some critical reasoning.

I understand and completely agree with the desires of the Moderators and Administrator in preventing loose political discussion. I feel that the moderators want to prevent an unhelpful political conversation from beginning on a website that is not meant for political discussions. I believe that they want to keep the discussions confined to the theme of this website -- a return to true Biblical revival. It is certainly a difficult task, because our "News and Current Events" topics often invoke political news. I think that it is safe to present information without prejudice. However, even in a thread as "nonpolitical" as this, a comment has already been presented in the form of "blanket fact" about the totality of "evil" politicians, Cheney's "financial interests" in Iraq, Cheney's knowledge that the war is not "worth human lives", a preemptive war "without any just cause," etc... These are mere speculations. Do you see how such a thread can turn decidely political to those who do not agree with statements presented? Like Mike said, the introductioin of these sort of discussions often lead to "agitation." While you may not see the initial post as "political" or that others (like me) turned it "political," it is farely certain that such conversations will be seen as political by others.

What was the purpose of this thread? Was it meant to seriously contend that Vice President Cheney was acting as a "prophet?" Was it meant to show Vice President Cheney's shift in a foreign policy position? Or was it meant to show that his beliefs about Iraq in 1994 were quite different than his beliefs today? Or was it meant to publicly paint the war and/or Cheney in a negative light? I don't pretend to know the motives for such a thread, but do you see how easily such a thread invokes comments?

I don't mean to sound quarrelsome or like a member of the "thought police." It just seems that the forums are often inundated with political ideas that are often not seen as expressive "political" thought. When only one side is presented, I sometimes reluctantly feel obliged to comment and present another perspective (or set of perspectives). In this case, it was merely a thread about a "prophet." Like you, I am going to do my best to refrain from any such defensive political posting in the future. It will certainly be difficult, because I often feel impressed to present alternatives in any subject (doctrinal OR natural) when only one side is presented.

Again, forgive me if my previous post was not clearly articulated earlier. I understand that this post was not meant to convey a political meaning. It just seems they turn out that way. I pray that you feel no ill will toward me in this. Know that I feel far more "involved" in such matters than you can possibly imagine -- and I don't like it!

In regards to your initial post:
- No, I don't believe that Cheney was a prophet (either in 1994 nor 2003), nor do I believe that his opinion was a prophecy.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2007/8/20 10:20Profile









 Re:

Quote:
3,000+ US Soldiers are dead now for a war that was fought on a preemptive basis without any just cause whatsoever.



There are some pretty smart folks who know a lot more than any of us on this forum that would consider this statement to be hogwash.

But this forum is really not about politics, or whether the current war is justified. I am finding (and moderators here agree) that statements like that, and political debates do nothing but stir up problems on this board.

So if you want to discuss it... please find another forum. This forum is not about that.

Krispy

 2007/8/20 10:22









 Re:

Quote:
I sure am glad you know my intentions since they have already been posted, but you believe what you want, and as far as politics go if you have read any of my previous post, you know your accusations are false. You folks are the only ones mentioning politics and where you put your trust is your business, as I said before, as for me and my house we will trust in the Lord, for He is our Hope.



*yawn* ... Oh, I'm sorry... were you speaking to me?

There's been a lot ranters on here lately, especially directed toward me. It would be nice if people would actually read what I write instead of waiting for someone to stick their head up so they can have something to shoot at.

You apparently didnt s l o w l y read my post because you obviously didnt understand what I was saying. If you cant read my posts, or at least ask for clarification before you attack someone, then I dont see any point in trying to make you understand what I am saying.

Quite unfortunate for you.

Krispy

 2007/8/20 10:26
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Brother Chris,

Thank you for your kind response. Let me assure you that there is no offense taken toward you in any way.
I would like to correct you in your terminology ’Christian pacifism’. Christian non-resistance is what I teach, many confuse the two as the same, but they are two completely different teachings. There’s a couple of post on the ‘we need to talk about peace’ thread that explains the difference.


Quote:
- No, I don't believe that Cheney was a prophet (either in 1994 nor 2003), nor do I believe that his opinion was a prophecy.



I am glad to hear that brother, neither do I! ;-)

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/8/20 17:30Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Krispy said:

Quote:
*yawn* ... Oh, I'm sorry... were you speaking to me?



No, not really. I was speaking to Popeye.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/8/20 17:36Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Also, I wonder what would have happened if some Biblical prophets refused to get involved in the affairs of their nation, or even other nations?



Precisely.

Quote:
Daniel, Jeremiah? Amos? Isaiah...



Or Wilberforce or Orr (no pun!) or EM Bounds, or Stonewall Jackson or Nehemiah or the KJV translators. God has always had certain strategic people in governmental systems, before and after the cross, and serving in the chaplaincy of the armies of man to fulfill His plan and purpose. That sort of thing is fine to discuss in these forums! Political posts focusing on the topic of God are relevant; political posts, however, that are conspicuously void of the mention and purpose of God only seem to foster division, as we've already seen in this thread. I think Mike B. made a good call.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/8/20 18:07Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Brother Paul said:Before his edit.

Quote: "Political posts dealing with the topic of God are fine, but political posts such as this that are void of the mention and purpose of God and instead centralized on the whims of man are not."
_____________________________________________

Brother Paul, you either have tunnel vision or you are purposely trying to mislead. Read, this is just some of what has been said. Your accusations are unfounded.

We have so many that are looking to man for the answer and all they will find there is a curse. We are blessed only if we put our complete trust and hope in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jeremiah 17:5-8
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. [6] For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. [7] Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. [8] For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

Finally someone who is willing to not discuss politics but the unjust methods used by the governments of this world. Man is fallible and we cannot put our trust in them. Satan offered our Lord Jesus Christ all the kingdoms of this world if he would bow down and worship him, why do so many not see that Satan has not changed and men are ACCEPTING HIS OFFER EVERY DAY.
Our trust must be in the Lord for He is our Hope.


Those who trust in man shall be deceived:

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Who is it that fights against the Lord?

Rev. 16:13-15
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. [14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. [15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Rev. 19:19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

We must make sure we are not among them, and our only hope is in the Lord, for

“Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.”



My Bible tells me that Jesus Christ is our example to follow and that has been clearly stated in this thread.

Why do you wish to make it something it is not?

Jesus Christ is the only answer for this world, not man.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/8/20 18:45Profile





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