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Mirac
Member



Joined: 2007/8/12
Posts: 9


 Sinless Perfection-Be Perfect as Your Father in Heaven is Perfect

I ran smack into a brick wall this weekend. The more I fight against my flesh. The more I strive to be "perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect." The more I listen to Jesus say to the woman at the well, "Go and sin no more." I realize I can't even do good without being prideful about the good deeds that I do. I can't keep the least of His commands. I fail to do what Jesus has asked of me. I realize, I deserve death, but Christ, He deserves my life...for what He did for me. Maybe if I can get myself out of the way enough, He just might be able to do something good, something genuine through me.

I am broken with failure asking for forgiveness for what I fight not to do. Not to run to my Savior asking for forgiveness for what I have asked for many times in the past. Oh how great your Mercy Lord! Oh how glorious, the love you have to wait on me to journey farther with you, to give you total access to me. That I may fully submit all areas of my life. That you may remake me into what you will. My patience for myself grows thin. I can't bear to fail you. Please take this poor sinners life and make it into something, something that brings glory and honor to your name.

Unimaginable, unfathomable...your love! Did you know when you asked of us, what you asked? Did you know the difficulty of what you asked? I think you probably did. So much failure, to strive to be like my Jesus. So much pain, when I fall so short. So much different than what I am, to serve and not to be served, to seek humility and humbleness rather than prop myself up with pride for everyone to look at. Why does it feel like everyone but me has it altogether? Why does it feel like I'm the only one who struggles to follow you? Why does it seem like everyone has it altogether?

Thank you Lord, for stepping down out of heaven to offer the only life line that can save me...You with me, every day, leading me through this journey, gazing into my eyes letting me know, everything will be alright, one day.........

This is my cross. So what are the thoughts about sinless perfection? Where are you at with this? Why when I talk about this topic with people do they immediately blow it off and claim it's not possible? Did not Jesus ask it? Can't it be possible if He asked?

 2007/8/12 9:24Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: Sinless Perfection-Be Perfect as Your Father in Heaven is Perfect

It might help you to understand when you get
the Greek word for perfect. It means to be
complete, made sound and whole. The Holy
Spirit's work is to complete us in love,
to perfect us by making us one with the Lord.
The Holy Spirit empowers and enables us to
live a godly life! That is why it is so
necessary to be filled with the Spirit,
led by the Spirit, and walk in the Spirit!! 8-)


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Martin G. Smith

 2007/8/12 9:31Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Sinless Perfection-Be Perfect as Your Father in Heaven is Perfect

Quote:

Mirac wrote:
I am broken with failure asking for forgiveness for what I fight not to do. Not to run to my Savior asking for forgiveness for what I have asked for many times in the past. Oh how great your Mercy Lord! Oh how glorious, the love you have to wait on me to journey farther with you, to give you total access to me. That I may fully submit all areas of my life. That you may remake me into what you will. My patience for myself grows thin. I can't bear to fail you. Please take this poor sinners life and make it into something, something that brings glory and honor to your name.



Friend,

I hear your pain resonating through your post. I had experienced it for years. May I offer a small morsel of insight, coming from having wrestled with this issue, and having come to a point of victory?

The only way to what you seek is [b]through[/b] the Cross. It is not enough to [b]behold[/b] the Cross on the hill, you need to take up your own, and follow Him up the hill. The pain you are experiencing, if allowed to complete its work, will work a death in you, and the desire to be "made" into anything will all but totally fade away, as you [b]realise[/b] (internally as an abiding reality) that "in you and your flesh there is (and always will be) no good thing".

I read in your post a vestige of desire to [b]be something[/b]. A sense of resentment about having to lean on His mercy to be righteous. It is hard to say this kind of thing without sounding condescending, and if I am right, you will be struggling with the urge to inform me of the fact that I've got it all wrong, and your desire is to "decrease, that he might increase". If you are like I was, then it would probably be more true that you have a strong desire to [b]desire to "decrease.."[/b], but for some reason, self keeps winning. It is truly a torturous experience, but take comfort in the fact that it is a clear signpost that the Cross is near.

I once heard someone say that suicide by crucifixion is impossible, because no matter how hard you try, you can't get that last nail in. I have found this to be true. We cannot choose our Cross, and it is never pleasant, but when we [b]find it[/b] (or should I say, "it finds us") it is an incredible relief to finally "die".

Who better to quote but a Wesley:
Quote:

Charles Wesley wrote:
[i]The dead to sin shall find Thy grace
The pure in heart shall see They face
I cannot see Thy face and live
So let me see Thy face and die[/i]



The Wesley's taught the doctrine of Christian Perfection (at least conceptually), before John wrote in his journals of his heart being "strangely warmed", after hearing the introduction to Luther's commentary, on the Epistle of Romans, being read out. One time they were preaching to a man on death row, and when the man was born again was born again, as a result of John's witness, the man began to console John.

I insert this to point out that every great man of God has had their own crisis, or what Keith Daniel refers to as their "own personal Calvary". Go with it, friend. It's coming. And then you will know what it is to be "[b]complete[/b] in like manner to your Father in Heaven's [b]completeness[/b]" (paraphrased to bring out the meaning).

I hope you can hear the voice of love in my post. You are in the right place. Many have come to such a crisis from being around here. You may kick and scream for a while, but eventually, you'll be "crucified in Christ, nevertheless (you'll) live, but not (you), but Christ (will) live in (you), and the life (you'll) live, while in the flesh, (you'll) live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved (you) and gave himself for (you)", not just as an intellectual concept, but as an abiding reality.

Blessings. :-)


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Aaron Ireland

 2007/8/12 10:02Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Sinless Perfection-Be Perfect as Your Father in Heaven is Perfect

Quote:

The longer I am a Christian, the more I realize...It's more than just a one day conversion and we don't need Jesus anymore...It's more than just choosing Jesus one day of our life 3 years ago. It's choosing Jesus and relying on Him to supply us bread daily. It's seeking His will every day. It's seeking His grace, every day. It's picking up our cross and carrying it until the death of self is complete.
[i](from [url=http://lifthimhigh.blogspot.com/2007/08/amazing-grace.html]Mirac's blog[/url])[/i]



I see you understand the concept. I look forward to seeing your testimony of it becoming reality. :-)


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Aaron Ireland

 2007/8/12 10:08Profile
Mirac
Member



Joined: 2007/8/12
Posts: 9


 Re:

CJ wrote:

Quote:
I insert this to point out that every great man of God has had their own crisis, or what Keith Daniel refers to as their "own personal Calvary". Go with it, friend. It's coming. And then you will know what it is to be "complete in like manner to your Father in Heaven's completeness" (paraphrased to bring out the meaning).



I have also noticed in myself the tendency that when I think I am being pure of heart, humble, not self seeking...that even in the midst of victory, I can find pride welling up in me of my pompous holiness.

My main question is, is it true that anyone (Other than Jesus) can live a life totally submitted to God's will...absolutely no self life? And, if a man made such a claim, wouldn't that be prideful? Wouldn't the poor in spirit actually never be able to come out and say, that they are holy and deserving of God...?

And no, I don't take offense to anything you try to sharpen on me...I welcome it. I appreciate your insights....

Something to meditate on:
Blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness...But it does not say Blessed are those who are righteous, but rather talks about the heart's desire for righteousness, but there is a hunger, not a filling or satisfaction of actually having it complete or perfect.

Thanks

 2007/8/12 13:50Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

Mirac wrote:
My main question is, is it true that anyone (Other than Jesus) can live a life totally submitted to God's will...absolutely no self life? And, if a man made such a claim, wouldn't that be prideful? Wouldn't the poor in spirit actually never be able to come out and say, that they are holy and deserving of God...?



If someone had come to this point, and denied it, wouldn't that be a form of pride? Don't forget who it was that told us that Moses was the meekest man on earth. Perhaps the problem isn't so much one of [b]being[/b] submitted to God will, as much as knowing [b]what it is to be[/b] submitted to God's will, and then [b]being[/b] it.

Submission is a [b]being[/b] before it is a [b]doing[/b].


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Aaron Ireland

 2007/8/12 17:27Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re: Sinless Perfection-Be Perfect as Your Father in Heaven is Perfect

Quote:
The more I strive to be "perfect, as my Father in heaven is perfect."



Dear Brother my heart is weeping for you, only because you struck something that is near and dear to my heart, something I am going through. You hate your sin, you detest what you are and what you can do! I believe that is a place where God is dealing with many who have that desire. It is a dangerous thing to pray the refiners fire, to be cleansed. Ray Comfort mentioned about that style of prayer in a article. I wish I could find it because it was the very thing he went through. I don't believe we can be perfect, only when the Perfect comes will be perfect. there is a difference when we strive to be made perfect and to be content. Paul said "Oh, wretched man that I am! Who can save me from the body of this death?



Quote:
I think you probably did. So much failure, to strive to be like my Jesus. So much pain, when I fall so short.



Romans 8:1 [i]There is[/i],therfore no [b]condemnation[/b] to them in Christ Jesus, who walk after not the flesh, but after the spirit.

Quote:
The more I listen to Jesus say to the woman at the well, "Go and sin no more."



Jesus had to say that to her, by not saying anything about not to sin anymore, people would think it is okay to sin? He is calling us to a higher standard. He is perfect and sinless, for Him not to mention it, would minimize His suffering, Holiness and sacrifice.

brother hang in there stand fast!! Get a brother you are close to, and bug him when times of failure come and when temptation begins. I have a dear brother who I trust, when I have slipped up, I don't hold it in. I bring it to the light and confess it to him. Not saying that you need to go and share everything and especially if you are not sure if you can trust a brother. Also, remember be careful what you might share, incase you may cause a brother to stumble.

Blessings
Reformer

 2007/8/12 20:36Profile
Needd
Member



Joined: 2007/1/1
Posts: 3


 Re: Sinless perfection - Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect

I have also been dealing with the pursuit of holiness in my own life. God has led me to an awesome book about it:
The Life That Wins by Watchman Nee

 2007/8/12 21:27Profile
ssweber
Member



Joined: 2007/8/12
Posts: 6


 Re: Sinless Perfection-Be Perfect as Your Father in Heaven is Perfect

I had this very same experience... the more I looked at the perfect law, the more it condemned me.

This is of God.

I was in bondage to my sin, namely sexual immorality (porn, lust) and spiritual pride. But the law worked about death in me. One night I died: said "I can't NOT sin... I can't do this anymore. I can't live any longer." I was bitter towards myself and mourned. It is incredibly humbling.

The next day (still felt horrible) I listened to some testimonies and teaching at christourlife.ca ... and learned that Jesus came to set us free from our sin--It isn't about our striving, its about dieing and then being resurrected. It wasn't works, it is simply Jesus. In that moment something clicked, I knew that freedom is my own. After that I laughed at Satan's temptations--"If the son sets you free you will be free indeed." Now I don't pay them any attention.

Keep seeking Christ.
-Sam

 2007/8/12 21:37Profile
Mirac
Member



Joined: 2007/8/12
Posts: 9


 Re:

Quote:
Dear Brother my heart is weeping for you, only because you struck something that is near and dear to my heart, something I am going through. You hate your sin, you detest what you are and what you can do!



Thank you brother...I appreciate the love. Something God gave me through this maybe it can stengthen you when testing or failure comes:

[b]I deserve death[/b], BUT Christ, [b]Christ deserves my life.[/b]

If Christ has my life, then one day I shall truly find life at the living waters that truly satisfy, not this shadow of a life that sends droplets of heaven. One day this thirst and hunger for righteousness will be no more, it will be what we are.

Peace to you and yours

 2007/8/12 23:01Profile





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