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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Gentile Tribulation Question

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Jesus said it Himself.

Matthew 13:56-58 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Paul spoke this one word: That Jesus Christ is the Son of God and believing in Him would give us new life in Him being born again of Spirit and the Water of Life. Col 1:27 and Gal 2:20

Acts 28:23-29 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

This puts the whole of Scripture in view and divides the word of truth, that we might understand the whole of God's Plan which He had already accomplished in Christ Jesus, that is to put Himself in His own birthed Children by the Son.

Ephesians 1:3-12 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Praise God He has seen fit to reveal His plan.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/6 22:21Profile









 Re: Gentile Tribulation Question


Brother IRONMAN,

Maybe you read a modern translation and didn't know these verses.

Isaiah 8:18
Behold, [u]I and the children whom the LORD hath given me[/u] [i]are[/i] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Hebrews 2:13
And again, I will put my trust in him. [u]And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me[/u].

Matthew 23:37 - Jesus speaking
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [i]her[/i] wings, but you were not willing!

Note, here Jesus is making Himself a mother, as Paul made himself a nurse in 1 Thess 2:7

But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:


John 13:33 - Jesus to the disciples
"[u]Little children[/u], I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, 'Where I am going, you cannot come,' so now I say to you.


Thus, for the prince to have 'children' is not improper or improbable.

 2007/12/8 16:33
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sis D Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

it was interesting that you brought up the issue of the children of the prince not necessarily being blood children. i had initially brought up that whole matter because that would be the first thing to enter into the minds of most people, "if this prince is Jesus, how is it He has children?" so you have brought up what could be a very likely scenario in which the children of the Prince are disciples of His.

something to consider.

also i do believe that the temple in question can and will be constructed. it seems impossible because of the dome of the rock and all but you know how with man things are impossible but with God...

i realize this view is new to you and something different to consider and i pray as we go back and forth that God clears this up for us all.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEM.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/12/9 21:33Profile









 Re: Gentile Tribulation Question



IRONMAN said

Quote:
had initially brought up that whole matter because that would be the first thing to enter into the minds of most people, "if this prince is Jesus, how is it He has children?"

And I thought you were serious! :-?

Quote:
i realize this view is new to you and something different to consider and i pray as we go back and forth that God clears this up for us all.

I've been wondering if you or Rahman (or anyone you know) have taken a nice big sheet of paper, and made a plan of Ezekiel's temple?

Judging by the new crown the Temple Institute has made, they are planning to build a third temple Solomon, rather than Ezekiel's prophetic version.

 2007/12/10 0:32
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sis D
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

well indeed the structure Ezekiel describes is large...very large and somewhat different to what the Jews at the temple institute now have in mind. There are however some aspects of this proposed temple which are the same as in Ezekiel's vision. so it's not a completely Solomonic temple, in fact it is more like the second temple with certain aspects of it like Ezekiel's temple. the topography of Jerusalem and that area will be different, the borders of Israel themselves will be different too.

i don't think it an impossible thing to build should God build it, after all the New Jerusalem is also a structure which is some 1500 miles cubed!

still much to consider and seek God for understanding...

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/12/10 3:22Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Hi Sis Dorcas! ...



--- Hey Sis Dorcas ...

Praise God ... i had no idea you and bro Ironman were still so into this ...

i shouldn't be surprised tho because it seems to me our Lord has bro I concerned with this part of Ezekiel much in the same manner and intensity as (i believe) He had me during the writing of "The Called", "God On Earth" and the beginning of "The Revelation Revealed" for just over a two year period ...

Praise God for this forum and bro I's having someone to discuss such matters with as in my case the prophetic subject matter i was dealing with at that time was so far over the head of my peers and/or just plain scared the pastors that i knew ... Come to think of it it was about around the time of my discovering "The Prince" during my initial research for "The Revelation Revealed" that the Power that motivated me to dig, and ponder, and pray and pry into the prophets just completely left me in the same abrupt manner as when He first jumped on me ... He like just switched me off of one thing, and then began to manuever me and empower me into another direction that had to do with bringing "words" to my pastor re: REPENTANCE & REVIVAL and praying toward such, now it's changed again and it's about being prepared to explain and console in our soon time of correction ... i've digressed some here tho, so in reference to your other questions regarding "The Prince" , etc., i have to confess i haven't the slightest revelations, nor any speculations on the matters ... i went on a tear when i first learned of "The Prince" and was much surprised to find out that none of the pastors i knew had ever heard of him, so they we're of no help and so i'm still in the dark on much of this Ezekiel subject matter and again have no unction or power to even be concerned with its mysteries at this point ... Actually i'm kinda pre-occupied with the winding down toward culmination of all that i've believed to have heard of our Lord for the past 20+ years ... Bro Ironman too is in this same boat, but like myself when i first started out he is young and full of vim and vigor with his Holy Ghost power, as i on the otherhand have gotten to be a senior citizen and have heard of our Lord at the beginning of 2007 that i'd done all that He's required of me to do on this side of 2008 and that i'm to be at rest in My Waiting Room Experience ... But praise God that (i believe) He has bro I and you on the case and so what i wrote back on page 7 still applies ---

Quote:
"i'm just gonna sit back and read as you and bro Ironman, and the other heavy hitters on this subject go back and forth, and see if i can learn something one way or the other ..."


Who knows, perhaps the reason why He stopped me so abruptly back then in my Ezekiel questions is that i'd not learn the rest until a future time, and perhaps yours and Bro I's quest may provide answers to the completing of the third book of my trilogy ...

Regarding Ezekiel's Temple i found this website that may add to yours and Bro I's conversation

[b]The Millennial Temple[/b]
http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm ---


Sis Dorcas you wrote;
"I looooong time ago, you asked me if I'd read Ezekiel 40 - 48. Well, I have now, and some of the converation on p7 of this thread makes a little more sense. And, I think I also understand that there is a whole construct around Israel in the American church to which I've never been exposed in a UK church. Seriously."

---Amen ... i can certainly see that ... It seems to me that once Britain handed Israel off to the US to take care of she's been our baby (at first politically) ever since, and subsequently has also been adopted by evangelical Christianity here in the States ... God does work in mysterious ways via individuals and nations His wonders to perform ...

Blessings in Christ Jesus our Lord :-D ---





 2007/12/10 11:26Profile
Pilgrim1986
Member



Joined: 2006/9/1
Posts: 3
Fort Worth Texas

 Re:

I believe that the Temple EZk speaks of is a commemoration of the Cross. Much like we in the NT partake of the Lord's supper. Jesus said do this in memory of me even so I believe that when the sacrifices are made during the millennium it will be worshiping in truth and Spirit, understanding all that the old testament sacrifices truly ment. I believe that it's clear that the prince is Jesus as the New Testament says he is the Prince of life and in many ways is he described metaphorically.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For "himself and all the people of the land" does this prince prepare a sin offering ... Christ is without sin ... He's God ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A scriptural reference was not given for me to try and comment on concerning the quote above. It's important to study scripture in context and sometimes even the greek or hebrew?

You're right Jesus is God the son and without sin and the Bible tells us that by Him all things were made that are made. You are on the right foundation but the devil would try to confuse the Church. As I read more on this website it seems to me there are many who are hungry for truth from the Word of God. Let us keep this hunger let us keep also on the true foundation. I believe that the Lord will be explaining things in his word throughout eternity because it's the word of God and eternal.
The Lord bless you


_________________
David Collins

 2007/12/18 7:55Profile









 Re: Gentile Tribulation Question


Hi Rahman,

Thanks for your reply. I think there is probably more going on in the UK than I'm aware of, regarding churches' consciousness of Israel.

You said

Quote:
It seems to me that once Britain handed Israel off to the US to take care of she's been our baby (at first politically) ever since, and subsequently has also been adopted by evangelical Christianity here in the States

I agree this is the way it looks but I don't believe this is anything other than the chosen political picture which both countries wish to be taken on board. Same goes for many other political situations.

The things I understood during my reading of Ezekiel's temple, are definitely spiritual, rather than physical, and therefore, encouraging. :-)

 2007/12/18 18:28









 Re: Gentile Tributlation Question


Hi Pilgrim and welcome.

Try Ezekiel 45 for the prince's offerings.


I also believe Ezekiel's temple is spiritual rather than physical. There is a strong aspect of the cross in what the Spirit brought to my understanding... but the thing of which I was most aware, was that the sacrifice of Christ had made it possible for me to become a true worshipper in the Spirit. That my mind and body are the temple which has been cleansed by the various sacrifices of the Prince, making peace with God.

It was as if I could sense the spaciousness within the temple made without hands. It reminded me of the utter reality of the sheepfold in John 10, which is an enclosure with a door (Door) as small as a man, but once you begin to dwell there, you can go out and find pasture, and return again from a great expanse of grazing.

I began to see all those places in Ezekiel's temple where sacrifices could be prepared and boiled - whether inside in secret (almost) or in the kitchens at the corners, as representing different aspects of interaction between the dweller-in-the-temple and God, or with others who do not have access to the Father.

You said

Quote:
As I read more on this website it seems to me there are many who are hungry for truth from the Word of God. Let us keep this hunger let us keep also on the true foundation. I believe that the Lord will be explaining things in his word throughout eternity because it's the word of God and eternal.

Thank you for the encouragement - especially that phrase 'the true foundation'.

I understood today when considering what Jesus had asked His disciples, that when Peter said 'You are the Christ', Jesus replied, 'on this Rock...' and it is He who is the foundation on which Peter was another [i]living stone[/i] laid down.

 2007/12/18 19:15









 Re: Gentile Tribulation Question


Bro Rahman,

I forgot to thank you for the excellent website about models of Ezekiel's temple. I guess you would have noticed they are both without the rather essential river which makes the whole thing work properly.... ;-)

I thought this was interesting also, and don't understand how someone who grasps these truths, also thinks there will be any need of a physical temple in the future... but... I won't [i]worry[/i] about that for now.

"Before beginning this study it is necessary to address a common teaching regarding a temple being built in Israel. Many Christian's teach and believe that the next temple to be built in Jerusalem Israel will be one in which "the man of sin" or "the Antichrist" will enter into and defile by declaring himself to be God. These beliefs are supported mainly from one verse in Second Thessalonians 2:4, which states that the man of sin "sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God."

There are two different Greek words that are translated as "temple" in English. One word "hieron" is used by Paul when referring to an actual building made with wood and stones. The other word "naos" is used when referring to the spiritual temple of God which refers to His people. The word "naos" is the one used in this 2 Thessalonians 2:4 verse, and therefore is NOT talking about a physical temple.

Doug Fortune, in his article "Antichrist Revealed" writes:

'Beginning with the Book of Acts, after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, through the Book of Revelation, the word naos is used ONLY referring to people as the temple not made with hands. When referring to the physical temple building the word hieron is used. Of course, throughout the Book of Revelation, the word naos is used, as that Book is the REVEALING of Jesus Christ, and He is revealed in the MIDST of the Lampstand, the CHURCH (Revelation 1:20). Why then is there so much confusion when 2 Thessalonians 2:4 speaks of the man of sin seated in the NAOS of God, “...which temple (naos) YE ARE...”(1Corinthians 3:17). Why are we looking for a man seated in a building yet to be built in the Middle-East, when we should be looking in the mirror? As the man of sin, the Adam nature is revealed and "the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by His appearing at His coming.” or “the brightness of His coming” (2 Thessalonians 2:8) as some translations read.'

The New Covenant addresses first spiritual matters and secondarily natural matters (Likewise the Old Testament speaks first to natural things and second to spiritual things). Therefore, 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is NOT referring to an actual physical temple. Even if there is another "temple building" built in Jerusalem before Ezekiel's temple, it has nothing to do with the construction of Ezekiel's temple discussed in this study, because the Messiah Yahoshua (Jesus) will be responsible for building the Millennial Temple. Zechariah 6:12 and 13 is clear that the Messiah (and not unredeemed Jews) will build the Lord's temple:


"Behold, the Man whose name is the Branch (a term for the Messiah)! From His place He shall branch out, And HE SHALL BUILD THE TEMPLE, Yes, He shall build the temple of the Lord. He shall bear the glory, and sit and rule on His throne; So he shall be a priest on His throne, And the counsel of peace shall be between them both (both natural and spiritual governments - or kings and priests)." "


Had you read this already?


 2007/12/18 19:26





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