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 Re:

Our victory over sin comes thru the shed blood of Christ, not thru our own efforts of not sinning.

We are to repent of our sin when God reveals it to us. This is true. But just as the people in OT times could not keep the Law, I believe it is impossible for someone to be completely free from sinning.

Paul pointed to the Law over and over again showing that man could not keep the Law, and thats why we need a Savior. And those people were attempting the keep the "letter" of the Law, and Christ said they should have been keeping the "spirit" of the Law... which is even harder to do. Example: adultry. The letter of the law to them was sex outside of marriage, and Christ took it further and said if a man even looks upon a woman and lusts he is guilty of adultry.

Why did He do this? To show that no one can measure up to God's standards.

While we should strive to stop sinning, we can not completely because it is part of our flesh. The real victory is that once we accept Christ's sacrifice, we are no longer bound by it, in that we are free from hell. The wages of sin are death... but Christ paid the wages for us.

And out of our love and appreciation for what He did, we then should strive for holiness in every area of our life... but Christ was the only sinless man who ever walked the earth. No one else.

I think this thread may set some folks up for a lot of frustration and disillusionment by telling them they must be sinless. It;s not going to happen.

We should all seek after holiness, but I think if you expect someday to reach sinless perfection... you're setting yourself up for failure and disappointment.

Krispy

 2007/8/10 8:10









 Re:

.... and please keep in mind that I have been preaching holiness on this forum since the day I got here.

Holiness and the KJV.

They go together like peanut butter and chocolate!

Krispy

PS: For those who believe they are sinless, please read the quote from Spurgeon at the bottom of my posts.

 2007/8/10 8:21









 Re:

I like this quote:

[i]It would be nice if once achieves a state of perfect and continual sinlessness immediately upon being born of God. But that apparently is not the case as Paul affirms in his own Christian experience saying, "I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin." Romans 7:25 So also James concerning his Christian experience writes, "We all stumble in many ways." James 3:2 But I would say most prominently of all are most all of the New Testament letters none of which make any mention of a second work of grace which causes one to be sinlessly perfect. Rather much is written concerning living rightly and overcoming sin; written not to non-Christians, but rather to those label - the elect - the saved - those born of God. But if such people are only capable of doing right and incapable of committing any acts of sin, such exhortations would be unnecessary, don't you think?" - Steve Amato[/i]

Krispy

 2007/8/10 8:37
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
We know that pride and anger and unforgivenness are all sins - they were there before the Lord revealed them to you as unknown sins - when God revealed them to you, they became known sins, produced guilt, then you repented and turned from them. That would be my definition and example of known and un-known sin - does that make sense?



It does. Thanks for taking the time to explain.


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Josh Parsley

 2007/8/10 10:52Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Our victory over sin comes thru the shed blood of Christ, not thru our own efforts of not sinning.



Amen. I think sometimes for those who teach a full deliverance from sin, it's hard to not come across in a way that the focus isn't on the Christian.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/8/10 10:56Profile









 Re:

Agreed.... It's a goal that they say [b]we[/b] need to achieve. Whatever happened to total reliance on [b]Him[/b]? Or our righteousness being like filthy rags in comparison to [b]Him[/b]?

Krispy

 2007/8/10 12:19
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 672
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Quote:
Our victory over sin comes thru the shed blood of Christ, not thru our own efforts of not sinning.



Amen!

Quote:
I think this thread may set some folks up for a lot of frustration and disillusionment by telling them they must be sinless. It;s not going to happen.

We should all seek after holiness, but I think if you expect someday to reach sinless perfection... you're setting yourself up for failure and disappointment.



Amen! It is really sad what some even on Sermonindex preach in the mask of holiness - it reminds of the Pharisees heaping boulder on mens shoulder - I have seen first hand the sad fruit of this type of teaching and mis-focus - when the focus is taken off of Christ and put upon a doctrine.

Patrick
www.revivalarmy.com


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Patrick Ersig

 2007/8/10 14:06Profile
Isaiah64
Member



Joined: 2006/9/27
Posts: 85


 Re:

sigh...God bless you guys.

I'm through with this debate. Just reading everying written on this thread gives me a headache.

I'm a simple person. It's pretty clear to me by reading Scripture (and that's how I came to my conclusions--through Scripture) that you can be filled with all the fullness of Christ and His perfect love, and obtain full victory over sin.
Numerous verses from the Bible promise us victory. The Lord's not going to promise us something that can't be done.

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [b]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.[/b]"
(1Th 5:23-24)

I'm not seeking a doctrine, I'm seeking a Person. Christ is my sanctification. I'm going to seek Him to fill me with the fullness of His presence, power, and cleansing--and I believe with all my heart that it can be done. I don't care how long it takes. I'm going to seek Him until I find Him and until He blesses me.

If this seems wrong, legalistic, or heretical to any of you, I do apologize.

But I just want to encourage all of you to put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, who is able to do exceedingly above all that we can ask or think.




 2007/8/11 0:30Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i was looking in the bible to see how many men or women were called holy;i found none,paul,peter james,john, moses,isiah...none. Jesus even said call no man good. the heart of man is DESPARATELY wicked...only the thrice holy God is Holy. the ground that was holy was because He was there. the bible is because He is on every page.your only holiness is when you are in Christ and the father only sees His Son.jimp

 2007/8/11 2:47Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

i just yesterday listend to a Tozer sermon and he said something that i think has a little to do with this, he said something like

"nowdays so many try and separate the house from the foundation, they try and separate the tree from the root"

, and i think that is what happends a lot concerning holiness...

and another quote from Tozer you all know that is wonderful,

"you are as Holy as you want to be"

Press on brothers & sisters

Christian



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CHRISTIAN

 2007/8/11 8:13Profile





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