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crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
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Santa Clara, CA

 Bill Bright

"I get on my knees every morning and night and give gratitude and praise that Jesus is my Savior, my Lord, my Master, my King. Every day I acknowledge, "Lord Jesus, I want to be close to You. Walk in my body, think with my mind, love with my heart, speak with my lips. Do whatever You want in and through me. Take my attitudes, my motives, my words, my actions, my desires, and orchestrate them by Your Holy Spirit. Cleanse me from all sin on a continuing basis."

The late Bill Bright


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Mike Balog

 2003/7/29 10:22Profile
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 Re: Bill Bright

Quote:
The late Bill Bright


Bill Bright just died this last 2 weeks ago I think. He was used of God much and he started Campus Crusade for Christ www.ccci.org which is HUGE now!

Even though he has had many converts to Christ probably millions, I question the soundness of their conversion. I think the evanglist [url=http://www.therevivalweneed.com/xoops/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=5]Ray Comfort[/url] address this issue of false conversions quite well! Even Leonard Ravenhill was grieved with the conversion methods used in modern day evangelism. Have you ever read one of there tracts? especially the 4 steps one. hmmm I will try and find one and scan it in.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2003/7/29 10:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Even though he has had many converts to Christ probably millions, I question the soundness of their conversion. I think the evanglist Ray Comfort address this issue of false conversions quite well! Even Leonard Ravenhill was grieved with the conversion methods used in modern day evangelism. Have you ever read one of there tracts? especially the 4 steps one. hmmm I will try and find one and scan it in.



I think you know that I agree with your view on Campus Crusade's "conversion methods". However, the point of my post is to redirect the post back to its intended direction.

I am not critizing you but I'm offering a friendly reminder to the regulars in the forum. The original post was a quotation from Bill Bright so what should be addressed is the quotation and not the individual who said it. For example, if you are debating and your opponent throws out an argument you would acomplish nothing by attacking the individual for their argument would still stand.

"An [i]Ad Hominem[/i] fallacy occurs when we attack someone's position by claiming that it is inconsistant with his practice or with other positions. The classic example is the patient who says to his doctor: "How can you tell me I should stop smoking when you still smoke yourself?" The fact that a doctor doesn't take his own advice hardly means that it isn't good advice; a hypocrite may still say something true or make a valid argument." - Kelley, David. [u]The Art of Reasoning 3rd Ed.[/u]

I'm sure your intentions was not to attack the quote or Bill Bright I'm just using this as example to outlime the proper method of discussion in the forums. This is to avoid having discussions, debates, and/or arguements from going off into extreme tangents.

God Bless,
William

 2003/7/29 13:54
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 Re:

True I have gone on abit of a tangent, so I started a new forum post: [url=http://www.therevivalweneed.com/xoops/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=189&post_id=782&order=0&viewmode=thread&pid=0&forum=36#782]The Four Spiritual Laws (are they biblical?)[/url]


Quote:
For example, if you are debating and your opponent throws out an argument you would acomplish nothing by attacking the individual for their argument would still stand.


I would have to disagree abit with you. If I know the persons character (from a christian perspective) is not aligned with what he is teaching. ie. he is commiting a sexual acts of perversion but is still preaching or teaching about holiness of life, then I dont even want to hear his arguments, because they are lifeless and carnal without the Spirit. And also its important to verify the Character of the person before you believe everything he says glibly.

Quote:
I'm just using this as example to outlime the proper method of discussion in the forums. This is to avoid having discussions, debates, and/or arguements from going off into extreme tangents.


I started the new forum post for the discussion of the gospel tract but I do think it is nice to allow for some tangents, they have resulted in a hidden blessing at times!

Quote:
Ad Hominem fallacy


hmm. I learn a NEW thing every day! thanks William.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2003/7/29 15:01Profile
todd
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 Re:

The following excerpt is found on pages 82-84 in the 2002-2003 (2nd Printing) of Ray Comfort's book "Revival's Golden Key" published by Bridge-Logos Publishers. This excerpt brings up many interesting, timely, and important topics. Not the least of which exposes Bill Bright's humility and honesty. I am under the impression that many on this site will profit from this excerpt, and it's application to this thread should be obvious.

Though I am still thinking many of these things over and am not completely sure about my opinions of them... this book is excellent, and, if nothing else (though I believe much else), so far it has challenged me in many areas. Though I have listened to some of Ray's sermons, especially "Hell's Best Kept Secret," I have been even more dramatically impacted by this book. Below is an example of why.

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Scripture makes it very clear what it is that causes men to flee from sin. It's the "fear of the Lord" (Proverbs 16:6). Understandably, [L.E.] Maxwell's conclusion was not a concern that so many had fled to Christ in fear, [i]but that some hadn't[/i]. When F.B. Meyer questioned four hundred Christian workers about why they came to Christ, "an overwhelming number testified that it was because of some message or influence of the terror of the Lord." The famous Bible teacher then said, "Oh, this is more than interesting and astonishing, especially in these days when we are rebuked often for not preaching more of the love of God!" R.C. Sproul said, "Jesus doesn't save us [i]to[/i] God. He saves us [i]from[/i] God." He also stated, "'There's probably no concept in theology more repugnant to modern America than the idea of divine wrath."...

Over the years that I have shared my concerns about contemporary evangelism, I have been careful never to name names. However, many have guessed that on occasion I have been referring to the incredibly popular tract [i]The Four Spiritual Laws[/i], penned by Dr. Bill Bright of Campus Crusade for Christ. More than a billion copies have been distributed in all the major languages of the world, and his approach has become the model for the modern gospel presentation.

In July 2002, Kirk [Cameron] and I were invited to Orlando, Florida, to join Dr. Bright at his home for breakfast. After breakfast, we sat down in his living room and heard this warm, humble, sincere man of God confess (in his 81st year) that he had been in error. Let me use his own words from a book he wrote (published in July 2002) to tell you what he said to us:

In His approximately 42 months of public ministry, there are 33 recorded instances of Jesus speaking about hell. No doubt He warned of hell thousands of times. The Bible refers to hell a total of 167 times. I wonder with what frequency this eternal subject is found in today's pulpits. I confess I have failed in my ministry to declare the reality of hell as often as I hve the love of God and the benefits of a personal relationship with Christ. But Jesus spent more of His time warning His listeners of the impending judgement of hell than speaking of the joys of heaven... I have never felt the need to focus on telling people about hell. However, as a result of a steady decline in morals and spiritual vitality in today's culture and a growing indifference to the afterlife, I have come to realize the need for greater discussion of hell... I have thus come to see that silence, or even benign neglect on these subjects, is disobedience on my part. To be silent on the eternal destinations of souls is to be like a sentry failing to warn his fellow soldiers of impending attack ([i]Heaven or Hell[/i], NewLife Publications, pp. 32, 48).

Dr. Bright even took the time to use the Law lawfully, by quoting every one of the Ten Commandments, then expounding the Law by saying, "Breaking these commandments will take us to hell without the intervening grace and mercy of Jesus Christ" (p. 37). In admitting "benign neglect of these subjects is disobedience on my part," such honesty reveals Dr. Bright's humility and his genuine love of the truth.

Please, follow his example and examine your evangelism in light of God's Word. At stake is the eternal salvation of millions of people. You don't need to throw away the [i]Four Spiritual Laws[/i] method. Simply make four simple changes. First, don't tell the sinner that Jesus will improve his life. Second, don't make the unbiblical mistake of giving the cure before you convince of the disease. Third, take the time to follow in the footsteps of the Master by opening up the Commandments. And fourth, remember to faithfully include the terrible realities of Judgement Day and hell.

 2003/10/10 23:26Profile





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