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Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US


brothers and sisters,

i personally don't have much of a problem with the article. i believe that my life and understanding would be helped by knowing how the jewish culture did or still does certain things. with that being said, i refuse to place myself or my family under the very law that we were redeemed from. didn't He become a curse for us so we wouldn't be cursed?? wasn't He born of a woman, born under the law to redeem us from the law??

the article had some good points, but my question would be "how does the author really think this should look like"?? in what practical ways does this jewishness work itself out?? the wall has been broken down and we are truly one in Him..

just my thoughts.. ;-)

 2007/8/1 17:27Profile

 Re: Christianity is Jewish

LoveHim said

just my thoughts..

Good thoughts.

 2007/8/1 18:00

 Re: Christianity is Jewish

The things I noticed in this article are

In my opinion, many of the most serious problems that the church has experienced over the last 2000 years could have been avoided if the church did not repeatedly cut itself off from its [b]Jewish roots[/b].

Does this mean he thinks gentile Christians should become more 'Jewish' in their thinking, or more like Christ, Who is the 'Jewish Root'?

Greek logic which has been the chief influence on the Christian church over the last 18 centuries uses a [b]tightly contained step-logic whereby one argues from premise to conclusion in a rational, logical fashion[/b]. Jews, both in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament, made use of block logic. Concepts were expressed in self-contained blocks of thought. These blocks of thought didn’t necessarily fit together in any obviously rational or harmonious pattern. This way of thinking opens the door for paradox or antinomies (apparent contradictions) as one block stands in tension with another block.

I'm not sure why 'block logic' is better for reaching 'Greeks' - that is, non-Jews.

If the gospel cannot be re-presented in non-block logic, then no Greek-thinker can be challenged to believe something better than his Greek philosophy.

Perhaps the intellectual feat which Paul performed with equally intellectual intergrity - of presenting the gospel in such a way as non-Jews could [i]follow[/i] the reasons they should believe - is something which gentiles had not appreciated?

I couldn't help remark on the word 'block' here:

1 Corinthians 1:18 - 29
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

Where [i]is[/i] the wise?
Where [i]is[/i] the scribe?
Where [i]is[/i] the disputer of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling [b]block[/b] and to the Greeks [b]foolishness[/b], but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [i]are called.[/i]

But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence.

We say either God did it or Pharaoh did it. It can’t be both!

philologos has worked hard on SI to move us towards accepting every bit of scripture as relevant to the whole, to counteract this kind of conflict.

When [b]the church[/b] has forgotten that Christianity is Jewish, it [b]has drawn a sharp distinction between the sacred and the secular[/b]. As a result, many Christians wonder where God is in their work places.

I believe this is more to do with the success of secularism than the failure of the church.

It is not possible to read 'pray without ceasing' or, 'in all things give thanks', or 'whatever you do, do it unto the Lord', and then walk out of church and [i]forget[/i] God is everywhere else as well.

The matter of [i]forgetting[/i] is more to do with the conditioning of the carnal mind than a failure to remember a 'Jewish' culture (this generation) may never have known.

The invisible spiritual world was said to be higher than the visible material world.

While I hear his appeal for a more Jewish way of resisting this thinking, I believe Christians have abused it for their own ends - such as doctrine which relieves the Christian of being heart, soul, mind, body and strength 100% all out for God. One that springs to mind is imputed righteousness without imparted righteousness and the consequent obligation to live up to a standard.

Jews living in biblical times thought of themselves as being part of a people. When they talked to God, they used the plural “we,” not the singular “I.” [b]That’s why Jesus (a Jew) taught us to pray, “Our Father[/b] in heaven,” not “My Father in heaven…”

I would put this quite differently, in that God really was Jesus' Father, and He brought us into the same relationship, by sending the Spirit of adoption into our hearts which cries 'Abba, Father'. So now He [i]is[/i] 'our Father'. Jesus did also refer to God as 'your Father' many times, but they had no real idea of what He meant, until after His resurrection (I believe).

[b]The Bible teaches that when a person comes to Christ, they are immediately grafted into the church[/b]. Our growth, our learning, and our salvation is eternally bound up with our relationships in the community of God’s people.

Definitely I do not agree with 'grafted into the church'. Grafted into the Vine. Grafted into the olive tree. Both Christ - yes. Made one with other believers as Peter describes 'living stones'; or 'the temple of the Holy Spirit', 'one loaf', 'members of His body' or 'one new man' to use Paul's words.

The phrase 'the church' is open to much misinterpretation.
many of the problems of contemporary (and historic) Christianity...

can never be solved by template other than Christ Himself.

That is the whole reason each believer needs to be born from above by the Spirit - that he or she may have their own sonship to God. Only as each person attends to the rightness of their standing with God, does the body of Christ make sense.

Indeed, there is a singularity of being a Christian, authorised by Peter when he challenged the listening Jews to 'save yourselves'. He was inviting each [u]individual[/u] to faith. This [i]must[/i] precede 'community'. In fact 'communion' also precedes [i]community[/i] in the experience of the individual believer.

 2007/8/1 18:45

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