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Discussion Forum : General Topics : MAKING THE LORD YOUR CONFIDENCE by Finney

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sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 MAKING THE LORD YOUR CONFIDENCE by Finney

Making the Lord Your Confidence by C.G. Finney

First of all, the sense the word give is
someone close and dear to you; a special
friend.

Someone you would tell your burdens, your
dreams, your hopes, your fears, your
worries.

Second, one upon whom you rely and trust
implicitly. Someone who has promised never
to forsake or leave you.

Last, but not least, the word gives a sense
of hope and expectation of glory sure to
come.

IS THE LORD YOUR CONFIDENCE ??


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2007/7/30 17:37Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: MAKING THE LORD YOUR CONFIDENCE by Finney

It's a shame that though Finney would write something like this, he would base it entirely upon the believers sanctification.

Everything in Finney's gospel is based upon man and his work to be justified before God by his works.

Just some balance, not trying to be contentious.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/30 17:41Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re:

He is simply speaking of making the Lord your
bosum, dearest friend; sharing all your
concerns with Him, and being known of God
as Abraham was. ;-)


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2007/7/30 18:39Profile
Billy7
Member



Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 61


 Re:

Hi Roaringlamb,

Could you back up your accusation against Finney with some proof?

Thanks.


_________________
Billy Evans

 2007/7/31 15:28Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

The sole source of a Christian's peace and hope is in Christ and His justifying work on behalf of the sinner. Finney did not believe that Christ's death was anything more than an example of how much God hated sin.

Consider this quote from his Systematic Theology Lecture on Justification -
[i]"That the penitent soul remains justified no longer than this full-hearted consecration continues…"[/i]

Here he is saying that a man's justification is completely based upon his consecration. This is not Biblical as there are multiple verses that tell us a man is justified by faith alone, and that faith will work.

Here is another quote-
[i]"Our own works, or obedience to the law or to the gospel, are not the ground or foundation of our justification … These are conditions of our justification… None of these must be omitted upon pain of eternal damnation."[/i]

So then what he is saying is that Christ's work is really worth nothing, and it cannot actually save anyone unless they have perfect obedience every day until the day they die. This completely makes salvation hinge upon man and his work, rather than on the perfect One who has imputed His righteousness to us. If there is no imputation, we have no salvation.

The next statements alone should be enough to make anyone who understands the work of Christ upon the cross question this man. Speaking on justification again, he says-
[i]"It is not founded in Christ's literally suffering the exact penalty of the law for them, and in this sense literally purchasing their justification and eternal salvation."[/i]

[i]"Neither is the atonement nor anything in the mediatorial work of Christ, the foundation of our justification, in the sense of the source, moving or procuring cause."[/i]

Now compare this to the Bible-
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But [b]he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.[/b]

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: [b]by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.[/b]

Heb 9:28 So [b]Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;[/b] and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There are more, but I hope this helps.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/7/31 15:52Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re:

I did not wish to turn this into a forum
on justification by faith or works. I
was just sharing the secret of fellowship
and friendship with God the Father.


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2007/7/31 16:42Profile
theopenlife
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Thanks RoaringLamb, the quotes were beneficial.

Sojourner, let's bring it back to your subject. There can be no sweeter thought than the mercy of God to befriend His people personally.

 2007/7/31 17:09Profile
Billy7
Member



Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 61


 Re:

Hi Roaringlamb,

In regards to your first Finney quote: “That the penitent soul remains justified no longer than this full-hearted consecration continues…”

I think the issue with Finney is that most people’s idea of “Salvation” is totally different from his, especially most Calvinist.

In all fairness, Finney’s idea of salvation was along the lines of what Jesus said when He defined eternal life as “knowing the one true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent” (Jn. 17: 3). That is to say that eternal life is enjoying a right relationship with God.

According to Finney, Christian salvation consists in a rebel being restored to right relationship with his Creator and King through the necessary conditions of repentance and faith. Therefore, such rebel could remain in a state of justification only as long as he remained in a proper state of allegiance with his Creator and King.

I beg to differ with your assertion that Finney “is saying that a man's justification is completely based upon his consecration.” He is not saying this at all. Your error lies in your failure to understand the difference between grounds and conditions. Grounds are defined as “the reason for which.” And conditions are defined as “the not without which.” That said, Finney is not saying that the reason for God justifying a sinner is based upon the sinner’s consecration. The grounds for God justifying sinners is simply His own gracious character—His awesome mercy and grace. That’s the basis for anything that God ever does for any of us.

However, Finney is saying that the necessary condition of a sinner’s justification is the sinner’s full-hearted consecration. God can only wisely justify, and continue to justify, those who keep themselves in the love of God—those who remain devoted to Him. For God to do anything less would be for Him to justify a rebel that has once again taken up the weapons of his original rebellion. This would be neither wise nor good of God, and this is all that Finney is saying here.



_________________
Billy Evans

 2007/7/31 20:17Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re:

"What man calls conversion is often only
the discovery of the Great Friend. What
man calls religion is the knowledge of
the Great Friend. What man calls holiness
is the imitation of the Great Friend."

Two Listeners
from God Calling

There is no dearer, truer companion than
Christ!!
8-)


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2007/7/31 20:19Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Brother Billy,
I believe the quotes speak for themselves, and there is no need to say what he really meant as his words do that for us.

When compared to Scripture Finney's theology comes off looking much more like Pelagius, than Christ, or any of the Apostles.

I would hope that we would all be like the Bereans, no matter who the teacher, and learn to love the truth of Christ, and His work of complete redemption.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/31 22:09Profile





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