You can read it here:http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/wesley.htmWhat are your thoughts on it, after reading it?God bless you! -Abraham
I cannot help but noticing, but do you, dear brother, simply worship the controversy of Calvinism v. Arminianism? Most of your posts that I have seen thus far on this forum have been geared towards simply stirring that pot. They don't seem geared towards the edification of the body, but simply promoting debate over finer points of theology.
_________________Jimmy H
Perhaps he's like a polar balance to Mr. Morell (Lazarus)? I see about a one-for-one match taking place, but I could be wrong. ;-) I believe both of these dear brothers see a lot at stake with these sides of theology. One fears people are getting falsely converted by not believing they are truly unacceptable. The other seems concerned that people slant God's character by limiting the atonement.A balance taking place?
BrethrenGreetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.i hope that in all these discussions on these 2 doctrines that both are in the word and thus both are valid...simultaneously. it's not one vs the other but one along with the other which gives us the complete view of Salvation. the fact that both are in the word lends credibility to them both. somehow in our natural minds we think them to be mutually exclusive but they aren't clearly because God has them both in the word. Paul understood predestination and man's free will in all this and i bless God i do understand this to the degree needed for me to function without trippin about it.it's not one, but both. i know i came out leaning more toward what some have called Calvinism (whatever that is) only for the purpose of bringing that aspect of it to the fore to balance out the Araminianism stance. Ultimately because both are for the Eternal Purpose of God they depend on Him and if we can begin to perceive the Eternal Purpose, we will start to see this unison of predestination and free will in that. if we remain in our carnality we will forever (well for a long time anyway) go around in circles and miss the point...then again we may be destined to so do till God extends Grace to bring us out of that cycle :-P like Katz said once, *whistle* "what are you gonna do with that hotshot?"Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.
_________________Farai Bamu
Somewhat agreed, Mr.Man.Except that many, many of our brothers believe that Calvinism (as it was taught by Calvin, and not Beza) IS the balance between Arminianism and Stoicism.There is a balance, which, as far as I can see, does not include Arminianism, per se. Rather, it is this:1.) All who will repent and believe and persevere to the end in faith shall be saved to the uttermost. 2.)All who will be saved to the uttermost were from the foundations of the earth God's elect and, as it says in Romans 8, were predestined and enabled by God's grace to do all that was required of them.Yet I am fresh in Christ and am growing with all in grace.Grace for holiness! Grace for holiness! And there is no holiness which is loveless. Amen.
A balance taking place?
I read in a book by J.I. Packer something of worth, that the grounds for peace between Wesley and Whitefield and the reason why both could preach together, was that they resolved to preach "all who repent and believe will be saved," rather than "only so many can be saved" or "all people ever can be saved".Promote love, holiness, and peace.
I read in a book by J.I. Packer something of worth, that the grounds for peace between Wesley and Whitefield and the reason why both could preach together, was that they resolved to preach "all who repent and believe will be saved," rather than "only so many can be saved" or "all people ever can be saved".
So long as both systems of theology stay in balance, I have nothing wrong with either. It's the extremes that I worry about. In the Calvinistic camp, I worry about those who hold to some forms of dispensational theology, which tends to promote anti-nomianism and a watered down Calvinism i.e. cheap grace/easy-belivism. But in the Arminian camp, equally as threatening are some of the more legalistic "holiness" groups that create modern day Pharisees (though Calvinistic groups haven't been without these folks either).Either way, groups on both sides have messed up understandings of God's sovereignty, human will, grace, faith, repentance, etc.
they contradict one another