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LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re:

Hello. :-)
Allright, So I will say my point.

Quote:
Your article you posted from what I can gather does not forbid the church building; unless I missed it?


You are right he does not promote it or denyes it.

Brother, the issue is not where anybody meets. You can meet in a Building or in a House, in Earth or in the Moon
:-) .


Quote:
I guess I am viewing your opinions that having a "denominational" building is wrong. That some how is unbiblical?



I stongly belive that having a "denominational" building is wrong.
Why?
Because no denomination is the Church of God, there are people in various denominations that do belong to the Church, but the denomination is not itself the Church. Then we are not being of one mind as Jesus wanted us to be in Jhon 17. Different denominations are giving Christianity in the sight of men and women a "divided" look. Not that the Church of God is devided, but that Denominations are making it seem as if it where, because most people do not understend what the Church is. I do not want to go into all the reasons why I belibe that meeting under a denominational name is wrong. But if you read Chapters 16,17,19, and 21 the most inportant in this issue.

Brother, We should congregate anywhere where God's spirit is.
If you have any question please tell me so.

Love you in Christ.God Bless you.


_________________
Samuel

 2007/8/1 18:28Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

Quote:
Brother I get what you are saying, I hope you are understanding where I am coming from. The most important thing we can do is Love the Lord, grow in the knowledge of His splendor, and share the good news.

Thanks for listening Phil

God bless you
Mike

i do understand friend. we should love the Lord, challenge each other and grow together and reach out to the lost and hurting. these are things that can happen if you meet in a building, house, cave, park, etc... the thing of utmost importance is "are we being the church, ya know"?? that is what i'm concerned, being the church, not where i go to. for now i do attend a building while hoping that the Lord will lead me to a house church, not because i'm bitter, but because i personally believe that it is more "each other oriented", "condusive for growth and true communion" and more "cost effective". but i will not tell others that they are wrong if they don't hold my views. a place to go, is to me a conviction that each person needs to settle in their heart. once settled, then go and be the church in the authority of our precious Lord.

i appreciate your willingness to listen. love you mike.

 2007/8/1 18:45Profile









 Re:

Quote:
reformer wrote:
Quote:
LittleGift wrote:
[u][b]My personal experience[/b][/u]:
In the early 1980's I became involved in a small prayer group of those from different denominational backgrounds. The Lord brought each of us out of the denomination we were in. Among other things, the Lord gave us such a vision of what the Church that we were spiritually "moved", and this led to a physical move.

Then one prayed "Lord, what do we do now? Where do we go?" and the answer came, "[b]Go wherever God's people gather[/b]".

So the vision didn't cause isolation, but freedom to fellowship wherever He sent us.

That doesn't mean "church-hopping" but remaining in that [i]spiritual[/i] place with the Lord where He has put me, and to the physical place where He sends.

I have since met others in the same place spiritually, and fellowship with them is richer than with any in the local church where the Lord has me...

We must never go on feelings, God does not give new revelation that is contrary to HIS word. Christ died for the church, EPh.5:27 says that he wants to present her a holy and blameless.

We know that we should not forsake the assembly with others. Meeting in a house to have fellowship is great, but that would be more like a bible study or just fellowship. It should not replace coming together in a local assembly to equip one another, to serve, to be a blessing to to others. Understand we can do those things with others privately.

I don't agree with not going to church and staying home. Its not biblical and foundational. The church doesn't save us, and we can't isolate ourselves from the church.

But that is my view, not a popular one on SI.
REformer

Hi Reformer

I'm puzzled why you quoted what I wrote to make these points.

You said:
Quote:
We must never go on feelings, God does not give new revelation that is contrary to HIS word. Christ died for the church, EPh.5:27 says that he wants to present her a holy and blameless

What feelings are you talking about? What "new revelation that is contrary to His Word"?

I know there are some who advocate withdrawing completely from fellowship and doing their own thing, but in quoting my words it seems you think I'm one of them, and I'm not quite sure why.:-?

The days are coming when we won't be able to easily meet in large open fellowships, and the true Church will probably have to go "underground" (as it already is in many parts of the world) but otherwise I agree with all you said.


Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/8/1 19:08









 Re:

To LiveforGod

Thanks for the (long) article you posted. Looks interesting. I have cut and pasted it into Word for reading later (it's 1am here and I'm working early in the morning!)

Blessings and good night

Jeannette

 2007/8/1 20:09
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

The way I read it was that you had a vision to leave the church you were attending and gather where ever GOds people gather. I construed it as a revelation from God to leave the fellowhip and just wander from place to place. I may have read it to fast and not fully understood it all. thats why I said what i said.

If I misunderstood you...sorry.

Mike :-)

 2007/8/1 21:06Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

brothers and sisters it has been good discussion and learned from all your input. 8-) I hope you got something as well. I will move on to another subject and I am sure I will run into you all again.

Blessings
Mike :-D

 2007/8/1 21:10Profile
DTSheffler
Member



Joined: 2006/2/16
Posts: 19


 Re:

Quote:
Todays evangelical "church system" is largely antichrist and it is almost impossible to develope a NT style body of believers in the system. For this reason many ON FIRE & PERSONALLY REVIVED believers are being called out of the system as they were during the days of John Wesley to home fellowships that more closely resemble true NT christianity such as we see in Acts.



I agree. I have no problem with people leaving the system because it has nothing to do with God. The church I attend is an extremely rare find and I certainly don't take that for granted. I would much rather see people do what you are talking about and form home fellowships that are actually interested in seeking God (this is how my church got started 30 years ago incidentally). However, once people do that, they need to figure out the relationships that they are going to be committed to and stick with them. You can't go your whole life and never give yourself to relationships.

 2007/8/2 8:23Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re:

I long to see a Church radiant with the
light of the gospel shining, a Church
set apart for the cause of the cross and
the kingdom of God, a Church filled with a
people for His own possession!! :-D


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2007/8/2 10:29Profile









 Re:

reformer-
The first set of scriptures you posted are all awesome (as all scripture is), along with the esword expounding of the words, but they actually hinder your point. Mainly because you are starting with a false supposition that church = going to a building on Sunday morning, singing a few songs, listening to a man speak for 45 minutes then going home and are isogetically interpreting the scriptures to fit your preconceived conclusions. (thanks sscott for pointing out that this is found nowhere in the bible)


Quote:

And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at HOME; for it is shameful for women to speak IN CHURCH(is the home and church two different places)



This is terrible hermeneutics, using an unclear passage of scripture to contradict dozens of very clear passages. The entire NT clearly states that the first century church met in homes and not buildings. Therefore it is far more biblical, in the purest sense, to meet in homes then steeple houses. Note, I am not saying it is sinful or bad to meet in buildings; it just isn’t in the NT. Here are a few clear scriptures.

Acts 2:2
Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:1-3 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter)

Acts 2:46
Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

Acts 5:42
Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.

Acts 8:3
But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.

Acts 12:5 + 12
So Peter was kept in prison, but the church was earnestly praying to God for him.

When this had dawned on him, he went to the house of Mary the mother of John, also called Mark, where many people had gathered and were praying

Acts 16:40
After Paul and Silas came out of the prison, they went to Lydia's house, where they met with the brothers and encouraged them. Then they left.

Acts 20:20
You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house.

Romans 16:
3Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus. 4They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them. 5Greet also the church that meets at their house.

1 Corinthians 16:19
The churches in the province of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house.

Colossians 4:15
Give my greetings to the brothers at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.


Philemon 1:2
To Philemon our dear friend and fellow worker, to Apphia our sister, to Archippus our fellow soldier and to the church that meets in your home:


Quote:

I agree that the church is not a building but it is a body of believers. You can't compare your in laws with everyone else. It is unfortunate that people do have a misconception of CHURCH. But, where I disagree with you is your reasoning behind in not going to a local assembly or "building".



my reasoning is because God called me out of it, it is almost completely apostate and I am called to be the Church as we fellowship with the other brothers and sisters who have “come out of her my people”, and not “go to church” and take part in compromised and unclean alters

Quote:


David wilkersons church…

Paul Washer…

Leanord Ravenhill sat under went to one of cementaries(semenaries)…

I don't believe these men will ever tell someone to leave a local fellowship, just because they feel it is part of the babylon system. These men you mentioned have been equipping and feeding saints for many years. The have done more the cause of Christ than you and I could hope for. Could you imagine them just meeting with a few in a house of where ever they felt like?



I am well aware of the ministries that the pastor I listen to are involved with. These men of God, ALL have openly and publicly rebuked the American “church system” as being largely apostate, and have all said its better to find a bible study with a few on fire believers.., I can dig up the audios upon request. (BTW, it was ravenhill who coined the cemetery (I mean seminary) phrase)

I do not think that meeting is a building is evil, I just see that the GREAT majority of that which meets in a building is evil. It is quite obvious that Gods hand was on Dave Wilkerson when he was out preaching in the streets and it is on him when he is preaching from the Time Square pulpit.

Quote:

Thats one of the many benefits that come from being part of a local fellowship. To love others as Christ commands. We can't love those only who we feel agree with our way of thinking, what does that profit us?



Bro, seriously… you are killing me with this.

Going to a building on Sunday and Wednesday w/ occasional pot luck dinner= local fellowship
If you don’t do the above you don’t love as Christ commands

Seriously brother, read my posts. Our fellowship is SOOOO sweet, when it is just five brethren or if it is an open meeting with the prostitutes and gang bangers in the ghetto at night. Your entire attitude on this seems to be built of false suppositions and straw men, as I stated above.

Quote:

Can you imagine how large some places where to hold the brethren just to read the letters(Epistles)



In fact ALL I CAN DO IS IMAGINE, because it is not written in scripture, all that is written in scripture is meeting in houses. (Again, I am not saying building in themselves are bad, there just not found in the NT and the great whore has set herself up primarily in the buildings that people gather at today)

We can only at best twist a few scriptures from James, 1 Corinthians 11 + 14, and maybe a few others while ignoring a TON of clear scriptures on this matter to draw to the conclusion that the early church met in buildings. A quick study of Church history will actually reveal that when the Church apostatized under Constantine (and further under the pope), the whole Sunday morning building meeting appeared…


Quote:

When people leave church because they feel it is a whore or it is a babylon system, they are decieved, because when you say that or anyone else they are talking about the church(believers) Christ died for. 1 John 3:10 "By yhis children of GOD and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness in not of GOd, nor the one who does not love his brother." Loving your brother is not those just in your proximity, but all of them. ( I know I touched on this already)



Brother, I am afraid again that you have a false idea of what the Church is and that you are greatly deceived in the matter and the way that you are creating false accusations about me not loving those who are of the bride is absurd and shameful :( I love all of my brothers and sister who were born, raised and still trapped in Babylon, not yet having seen the glory of Jerusalem with their own eyes. I love you too, and hope you will consider the testimony of scripture on this matter, whether you meet in a building, on the street or in a house. May the Lord continue to lead you in all truth.

I am working on an article that breaks down the modern church system and contrasts it to biblical Christianity. This is difficult because there is much to be said and to be divided and is no simple task.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/8/2 11:30
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:
Going to a building on Sunday and Wednesday w/ occasional pot luck dinner= local fellowship

Quote:
If you don’t do the above you don’t love as Christ commands



Sir you have NO idea what my Love for the One who died for me is! Brother if you think I don't Love HIM the way HE commands, then you are sadly mistaken! For you to even say that makes you sound like you have it right.

obviously you have not even read anything I have posted. I am NOT saying the church( the building) is a place where I meet God! Its a place I go!

You can't be that naive to think that just because they met in houses, means that is doctrine! Please! What about Corinth, was that not a building where people gathered? Surely there system was pagan, but did Paul tell them to go to your houses, because they acted like fornicators and pagans. He went as far in one case to oust the one out in platant sinful behavior, was it the system that was wrong?

I will never see your point that just a few of you get together just because the system is broken in some churches. To me what you are doing is self martyrdom. have you ever thought about what can I do to help the system? Have you ever thought instead of leaving a church because somethings are not the way you feel it should be, is maybe I should start a ministry or start a bible study within the "whore", as many of you call it. maybe if I pray and try to make a differnce, maybe God will work through me?

So what about having pot lucks and meeting on wednesdays and sundays. Big deal! I think that is great. The more you can get together the better in my eyes.

Do you go and see the widows in the nursing homes? WE do! How about visiting those that are in the hospital with a terminal ill child? We do! How about going out on sunday nights and evangelizing in the community, visiting people that came to visit the church? We do. how about giving of your tithes and offerings? (I stated that point one other time and NO one commented on it.) You know it is biblical to support those who teach.

Yes i understand that sometimes you may have to start a fellowship in a house, or small office, then as it grows, will you buy a bigger house? No you will get a building and worship together.

you can spend all your time studying church history and post articles, but it is not going to matter to me. I am sorry but your wrong. Your not apostles.

I don't agree with alot of things that go on in my church, that would make me a hypocrite, becausem I am not all together, since I am the body of Christ, His church, I would like to jump out of flesh because I hate it! But that would be impossible.

I don't think any of you are listening? I never said the church is a buidling. Now if it is wrong to meet in a building and have fellowship and sing hymns and teach....then I have been doing the wrong thing for years and will repent and start a fellowhip in my house. Thats isolation and rebellious. To seperate yourself because people have been influenced by other peoples opinions. I enjoy going to a nice and comfortable building, I enjoy it. I said enough and won't say anymore on this subject. it is fruitless.

I wonder why SI won't lock this done, when they locked the one I started? Maybe because what I believe in such a minority on SI.

For Him and because of HIm
Reformer


 2007/8/2 15:00Profile





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