| Re: |
I was very blessed to spend some time with brother Denny in Greenock, I drove him around and he and I also shared at one of the toughest venues in Scotland, a place called the Ambassador Hall. It sounds grand, but it was a hall in a school in the middle of one of the toughest projects in the lowlands of industiral Scotland. Almost 100% of the audience were drug addicts or former addicts. To be honest, I was afraid for brother Denny because of the way that he dressed, that they would not take him seriously and in fact there were a few sniggers when he arose to speak. Yet, the momant that man of God began to speak you could have heard a pin drop. He spoke with the passion and the love of God and with the power of God and greatly impacted the hearers. He was one of the most Godly men that I have met in my 20 years of Christianity..........brother Frank
| 2011/1/23 13:16|
| All broken, all honored equally....and New Wine.|
"There is no perfect church or perfect people, we are all broken jars,... imagine hunting around trying to find the best broken jars to be with! God forgive us!
We all have our places to be in the kingdom of God. And at times God raises up new men with new movements when things around them become very shallow and unreal. And they pursue Jesus Christ afresh in authentic reality and find Him and therefore a new camp is born."
Amen Greg.[one of the deepest insights I have gleaned from you.... ]
And you will be hated for it....for both exposing the camp that has grown into stagnation and control, and the general persecution that comes from manifesting the free grace of God with the sign of Jesus's approval , His presence, following.
36. He told them this parable: No one tears a piece out of a new garment to patch an old one. Otherwise, they will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old.
37. And no one pours new wine into old wine-skins!"
"Otherwise, the new wine will burst the skins; the wine will run out and the wine-skins will be ruined.
38. No, new wine must be poured into new wine-skins."
It's the same with church splits. Often it is the Lord himself extracting those willing to be filled with Himself that manifests the tension that brings the division. Often, church splits can be designed by God, in order to create this new vehicle that will actually CONTAIN the living glory of Jesus.
Consider the Pharisee's [ the existing wineskin of that age..] reaction to Jesus himself and the early church.;The intense persecution upon the Reformation fathers, John Wesley, Azusa street, to name a very few of the "radicals" that dared seek a fuller representation of their Lord.
I think that this process goes on and on and on, cascading through time itself always bearing a witness of the Cross, and Jesus's glory....and historically always has become stagnant...[Wesley's organization, the Methodists now ordains Lesbian and homosexual ministers...] This has created the need of revival and "New moves"...[always despised by the status quo...].
Remember, the war is about control. Is Jesus receiving the worship due Him, or is man, controlling the strings to gain pre-eminence?
There is no scriptural basis for ONE MAN to control a church, or a central organization....EVER.[Be it Denny Keniston, Bill Gothard, or Zac Poonen..among the multitudes...] The only time this was exposed in the New Testament, was under the basis of confronting HERESY!....division....when Diotrophese was confronted by the apostle John, in John 3, as loving the preeminence.
There is no scriptural basis for a man, or hierarchy to make a living, be supported by the church, as their minister....none. Jesus called these hirelings.
There was always a plurality of shepherds, in the first church according to scripture, who did not live for money, control, power, or any of the benefits of rulership, as the gentiles did, [and modern corporations do today..]
24. Now there was also a dispute among them, as to which of them should be considered the greatest.
25 And He..[JESUS..] said to them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those who exercise authority over them are called benefactors.
26 But NOT SO among you; on the contrary, he who is greatest among you, let him be as the younger, and he who governs as he who serves."
It seems to me, that any Revival, or move of God, that actually held the true Glory of god, for any length of time, had this core belief in common.
In God's fellowship, the very least of the brethren are honored and used as much as the so called greater , or more ambitious and gifted ones; as it was in the early church, and so it is today, in God's economy.
| 2011/1/24 9:02|
Panama City, FL
| Re: |
But it is wonderful how each part of the body of Christ has something to share with the other parts.
Amen, amen what a great thought! We can all learn from each other how to better walk with our Lord!
| 2011/1/24 12:33||Profile|
| 2011/1/24 12:39||Profile|
| Re: |
Just wanted to say "thank you" for the openness here and for seeing the heart of those within these groups.
For myself I find that it is a blessing to be a part of a group who honestly are seeking Christ and to walk in the Light as He is in the light in deed and not word only. I also find it a blessing to know that there are believers of other beliefs and practices when it comes to application, who speak kindly of those in the Anabaptist settings.
People make mistakes and I feel the important thing for me is to pray to be continually filled with Christ's love and humility. When people and movements fail, not to criticize, etc. but to pray for and come along side to encourage and strengthen.
Thank you for your insights and thoughts you've shared in this thread. It truly blessed me.
May the Lord bless each of you and help us to be faithful in these last days!
| 2011/1/26 10:15||Profile|
| Re: All broken, all honored equally....and New Wine.|
I like the generous spirit in this thread, it is truely refreshing! Also Brothertom has made some very good points.
Unlike Appolos, I do not know Denny Kenaston personally and only listened to a few of his messages. I was at the Greenock conference and what I heard and saw in Denny was a man of God; great humility and spiritual insight.
Of the messages that I have heard and other information (such as their magazines) I have read, I have come to the conclusion that the strict rules that Charity Churches tend to live by may be OK and profitable for those who have a vibrant, living walk with the Lord, but when imposed on others and formulated into a creed it can quickly become just a dead religious movement, focusing on the outward rules and regulations. I personally believe that by the next generation this type of movement can quickly descend into legalism and even in extreme circumstances a cult.
I pray that this will not happen here, but history tends to indicate it does.
| 2011/1/26 10:34||Profile|
| Re: |
We must always remember there is no perfect group. Only a perfect Jesus. It is our responsibility to keep our eyes on Him. Heb 12:2
It is very significant that only after the Holy Spirit tells us to put on the whole armor of God (Jesus Christ), that He then tells us this. Because we are not equipped, otherwise to pray and watch.
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Only after putting on the Lord Jesus Christ (daily) will you have a heart to pray, watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.
If this man has truly mutual relationships where even the least of the brethren can address him and even correct him, then he has a teachable heart and God will show him any errors he has. If he has set himself up "over" the brethren, then he will have a biased, blind spot. We should not say, I report to God and everyone else reports to me. Not saying that this person is saying that.
Please note, I am saying "IF". This applies to everyone of us. We are to follow the Lord, not man. It is only when we set ourselves up over our fellow brothers and sisters that we contract blind spots and tunnel vision.
Let us pray for Mr. Kenaston that he has true mutuality with all the brothers and there is freedom for all to speak as it were, the oracles of God. And I truly hope that these things are already the reality.
| 2011/1/26 16:24||Profile|
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I am greatly blessed by Brother Denny as with talking with him in Greenock especially his heart for the Glory of Christ
| 2011/1/29 5:39||Profile|
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I would like to add an amen to the work of Charity Fellowship! I have appreciated them for years.
| 2011/1/29 9:43|