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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Dead in or to sin a choice??

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 Dead in or to sin a choice??

The bible says that sinners are dead in sin and Christians are dead to sin.

Is it a choice to be dead in sin and a choice to be dead to sin?

I believe it is a choice. Anything that is vice, and anything that is virtue, must be voluntary and willfull.

A Christian is only dead to sin if they choose every day to deny themselves, pick up their cross, and follow Christ. Only then can they say with Paul "I die daily".

Death to sin and death in sin are voluntary moral choices. Death in sin and death to sin is not the absence of freewill, but is determined by freewill.

Thoughts?

 2007/7/24 8:55
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Dead in or to sin a choice??

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life... For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Romans 6)

Here Sin is personified as a slavemaster. This picture is clearly shown in the Exodus from Egypt. We are dead to the Sin because we have been baptized into Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit. We share in His death.

... for in that he died, to [u]the sin[/u] he died once, and in that he liveth, he liveth to God; (YLT)

Notice how Young uses the definite article [u]the[/u] sin. This is Sin the dynamic. This is the Sin that 'entered' the human race through Adam. This is what makes men by 'nature' the children of wrath. This is why men must be born again of the Spirit.

Our choice is the 'reckoning' part.

...Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. (v11)

It is through Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection that we are dead to Sin and alive unto God. At death all contracts are off. Slaves are free from their master's. When then do men need to 'reckon'? Because opressors never willingly relieve those they opress. Those that are IN CHRIST have the right to reckon themselves dead to Sin. Slavemester's in the Mid 1800's surely did not go to the fields once the Emancipation Proclimation was signed and declare liberty to their captives? Satan does not do it either. He will lie and confuse and trouble their former captives into serving him still. This is why Paul has to remind the people RECKON yourself free. They needed to see it- You are FREE! But this is only true to those that are truly in christ. One cannot reckon what they have not received.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/7/24 9:55Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Robert wrote:

Quote:
Here Sin is personified as a slavemaster.



Quote:
This is Sin the dynamic. This is the Sin that 'entered' the human race through Adam. This is what makes men by 'nature' the children of wrath. This is why men must be born again of the Spirit.



This precept, I believe, is further understood in Genesis 4:

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Look to the personification (I'm not sure that is the right term) of sin in verse 7. Look to the qualities given to "sin." "Sin lieth at the door," and sin is given the attributes of "his desire" and finally Cain is expected by God to "rule over him."

Likewise in the Scripture you posted, sin is a slavemaster. We also find this precept defined by man's relationship to sin...

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

In this Scripture Paul defines two paths which we have may travel as believers. Paul defines the believer as a "slave." We as slaves either "obey" sin or "righteousness."

One path leads to spiritual death the other path leads to "righteousness."

Now in Scripture Paul teaches that there is freedom from bondage to sin and to reckon that we are enabled to overcome the bondage of sin...this reminds me of this picture found in the OT...


Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Here we see a ceremony for the high priest Josuha. We see here that the Angel of the Lord plucks from the fire, Joshua. Joshua is given freedom from his former slavemaster Satan...then...

Zec 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

The teaching in Zechariah is a mirror to what Paul teaches in Romans 6. He like Zechariah teaches that the door is opened by Christ to experience freedom from our former slavemaster Satan. Paul like Zechariah also teaches that there is a condition of "do you not know to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey" and in Zechariah "if thou wilt."

What do you see in the choices given to us according to the spiritual world?

In Christ
jeff





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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/7/24 10:40Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Bump...

In Christ
jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/7/25 19:40Profile









 Re:

ok, thanks for the teachings

 2007/7/25 19:52









 Re: Dead in or to sin a choice??

The choices you make, come from the heart you have.
There is a stony heart and a new heart (or a heart of flesh as the bible calls it.)
If you have an evil heart, you make evil choices. If you have a pure heart, you make pure choices. To say that a stony heart can make pure choices, is to conlude that your choices don't come from the heart or to conclude that the stony heart has the ability to please God. If we make a pure choice, it is pleasing to God. Therefore you must conclude that they that are in the flesh (or in an unregenerated heart) can please God. You know what the scriptures say about that. Romans 8 makes it clear, they cannot please God.

If you believe that they can... yur view of regeneration becomes a choice, a mere decision from man, a raised hand voting for Jesus, a signature on a decision card, a prayer from an impure heart that never did anyone any good.

Rather, regeneration is a supernatural-miracle work of God by the means of the power of the gospel being preached to God's Elect whom He will have mercy on. We are to preach to every creature and call them to repent and believe the gospel. We ar to preach on Sin, Law, Righteousness, and Judgment to come. We are to preach the God of the Bible. Jesus Christ Crucified the Risen Lord of Lords and King of Kings. We are not to preach a Jesus who is running for office and needs your vote to increase His kingdom. Sinners already voted for Jesus. They did it at the cross. They crucified Him. We crucified Him. We did it in ignorance and unbelief. No, sinner will ever vote for Jesus again. He's already in office... and He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy.(See Revelation 7 for an example of election) You can't escape it. In that chapter, God has elected a people out of each of the tribes of Israel in a beautiful even number. Not one jot or title shall by no means pass away from the 144,000 in Revelation 7.

Jesse, I love you... Keep preaching the Word. God has blessed you there. I'll spread the word to other's to keep your ministry in prayer and that God's grace and power would be upon your preaching.

P.S. Jesse, It sounds like you've studied calvinism to a degree and perhaps you where around when Eli and Evan used to debate it. And I've heard you in a thread before, stating that Calvinist have such differing views, it becomes confusing. This is true. I would encourage you to study the gospel of Isaiah and John along with your normal reading. Of coarse I would recommend great men of the past. But, I want to recommend Paul Washer's view on "the Doctrines of Grace". (There are so few Calvinist in our day who preach with unction and tears) Paul Washer is a man who is following Jesus and he leaves an example for us all. I posted a recent thread called "Study Calvinism" I know alot of it would be very distasteful for you. But, I'm sure you'll be blessed by Paul Washer's preaching on the topic. (even if you disagree with Him.)

Thread: Study Calvinism


God bless you brother Jesse! -Abraham

(edited for clarification to the Rev. 7 passage)

 2007/7/25 21:02





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