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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : When did you repent?

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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Jesse wrote

Quote:
If there is no difference, no actual change, no actual transformation, no actual regereration, no radical new birth, then it simply isn't a new heart. Nothing can be considered believing from the heart except believing unto righteousness.



Where in Scripture does it speak of a "radical new heart?"

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/7/23 12:08Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

maybe radical isent the most appropriate word to describe it, but its quite clear it is a "dramatic" change.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Ezekiel 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the (1 )corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/7/23 12:53Profile
ANewInHim
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Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 54


 Re:

Quote:
If there is no difference, no actual change, no actual transformation, no actual regereration, no radical new birth, then it simply isn't a new heart. Nothing can be considered believing from the heart except believing unto righteousness.



To be regenerated is to have a New Heart.

 2007/7/23 13:16Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Ezekiel 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezekiel 36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the (1 )corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.



But notice who is doing it.

We are sadly mistaken , if we think all men have the natural ability to repent, and believe the Gospel. For Scripture tells us that none seek Him, none do good, and all are dead in sin. So how does a dead man do something unless he is given life?

Ezekiel 37 is one of the most wonderful pictures of our duty as bearers of the Gospel. If you notice the audience, they are dead, actually beyond dead, there is not even any flesh on the bones.

Yet as Ezekiel proclaims the word of the Lord, GOD works to bring life, and begins to create flesh, and blood. Then He put His Spirit within them, and they live.

Thus when we look at Paul's words in Romans 10-
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Our mission so to speak is to preach Christ and Him crucified, and the Spirit will give life to whom He will. We plant and water, but God gives the increase.

Many modern evangelists, and churches believe that man can respond on his own and do not rely upon the Spirit's work in applying salvation to the sinner's soul. Therefore they reduce the gospel to a mental thing, "do you believe this, do you believe that?"

But a true working of the Spirit will produce conviction, repentance, and sanctification. But these are all fruits of the new birth and not the cause of the new birth. This is where we have erred grievously. In thinking that these certain acts are what lead to the new birth, this has given way to a "decisional regenration" type of mentality wherein if a person demonstrates these, we assume they are born again. But in reality, they may only be responding to what has been said is the means to peace, joy etc.

Again look at the man with the withered hand, or Lazarus in the tomb, and notice that though they could not in and of themselves do what God was commanding, God enabled them to do what He wasa commanding.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/7/23 13:17Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

but if not all men has the ability to repent & believe how can God throw them in hell when they had no chance to respond because God dident work in them by the spirit?

how can God command all people to repent when he know they cant anyway?

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent




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CHRISTIAN

 2007/7/23 13:26Profile
HopePurifies
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Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Although God says

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

He also says

Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?

The reason the Lord is performing the operation in chapter 36 is because man cannot get his own heart. But if man repents from his sin and desires the new heart God indeed will give it to him. You must believe and act on chapter 18 to make way for the promise of chapter 36.

Dead in sin talks of the inability to remove oneself from the situation and depravity of sin. However God can do it and we can ask Him to, by believing the promise He made to us by faith. "None do good" is a call to all people to realize they don't do good and come to Christ. We have to realize that Jesus is the source of all that's necessary for salvation and then reach out our hands in faith to recieve.

Quote:
Again look at the man with the withered hand, or Lazarus in the tomb, and notice that though they could not in and of themselves do what God was commanding, God enabled them to do what He was acommanding.



Amen. We cannot do what God commands of our own strength, but to those who realize that they can come to God of their own freewill to recieve the ability to perform.

It seems to me that just because God CAN override people and may have done so in miracles on a few occasions doesn't mean that that is what God ALWAYS does. We have to look at all the scriptures. People he healed could have refused to take up their bed and walk, or wash in the pool of Siloam, or whatever else Jesus often commanded in conjunction with His healing. But Jesus did miracles for people who had faith- and that faith of necessity brought appropriate works. And now God commands men everywhere to repent and believe.

Deuteronomy 30:10-14 If you obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.


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Melanie

 2007/7/23 14:34Profile
Tears_of_joy
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Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
HopePurifies wrote:
But Jesus did miracles [b]for people who had faith[/b]- and [u]that faith[/u] of necessity brought appropriate works. And now God commands men everywhere to repent and believe.



Yes, that is what the Scripture teach us.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, [b]Thy faith hath saved thee;[/b] go in peace.

Luke 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: [b]thy faith hath made thee whole;[/b] go in peace.

Luke 17:19 And he said unto him, [b]Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.[/b]

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, [b]Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.[/b]
Luke 18:43 And [b]immediately[/b] he received his sight, and followed him,

Mar 6:6 And he marvelled because of [b]their unbelief.[/b] And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, [b]Because of your unbelief:[/b] for verily I say unto you, [b]If ye have faith[/b] as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

 2007/7/23 14:50Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
but if not all men has the ability to repent & believe how can God throw them in hell when they had no chance to respond because God dident work in them by the spirit?



Brother, God owes salvation to no man. Therefore unless He intervened into mankind all would be lost.

Now what I find interesting is that none will decry the unfairness of satan's condemnation, and that of his demons, but they will decry the fact that not all men are saved. Why has satan been damned? Because of his sin, and all those who sinned with him share that future.

Now let us hypothetically suggest that a demon could be changed(again this is hypothetical).
Did I mentioin this is completely hypothetical?

Ok, so let's say that one of the demons was to be saved. They are condemned because they do nothing but sin, and their nature is after their father the devil. So how could this be altered? Can a leopard change his spots, or the Ethiopian his skin? Who can bring forth a pure thing from and impure thing? Wouldn't there need to be a new birth? out of death and damnation and into life and Christ. Who can do this but God alone?

Man however thinks he is better than that even though Scripture tells us we are lower than the angels. But man in his pride will say, "I am not like that, or I am not that bad."

But all sin is damnable is it not.

If we really understood sin, and its effects upon man, we would see it is very just for God even if He saves none. But it is the glory of His mercy that He saves any. God has always had a predetermined group of people. All through the Scriptures this is evident, salvation was not offered to all in the OT, yet God in grace sends Jonah to the worst of the worst and they repent while the Philistines, and Babylonians foolow gods after their own making.

God never casted off Israel, but chastened and rebuked them to purge them of the offending action. It has not changed, God still chastens His children to purge them of what offends.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/7/23 14:57Profile
Tears_of_joy
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Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
roaringlamb said:
We are sadly mistaken , if we think [b]all men have the natural ability to repent,[/b] and believe the Gospel. For Scripture tells us that none seek Him, none do good, and all are dead in sin. So how does a dead man do something unless he is given life?



If that is true, that the Lord is speaking in vain those words:

Eze 18:23 [b]Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?[/b] saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, [b]shall he live?[/b] All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, [b]in them shall he die.[/b]

Eze 18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? [b]are not your ways unequal?[/b]

Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Eze 18:27 Again, [b][u]when[/u][/b] the wicked man [b]turneth away[/b] from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, [b][u]he shall save his soul alive.[/u] [/b]

Eze 18:28 [b]Because[/b] he considereth, [b]and turneth away[/b] from all his transgressions that he hath committed, [b]he shall surely live,[/b] he shall not die.

God is He who commands [b]everyone[/b] now to repent, and when He commands that means it is possible to do that. And of course that means after repentance and faith [b]He[/b] will give them a new heart, and will save them from their since, but they need to confess their sins and repent of that they are utterly helpless and they need Savior.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for [b]he shall save his people from their sins.[/b]

But first you need to repent of your wicked ways and turn with faith to the Savior.

 2007/7/23 15:02Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
roaringlamb:
Brother, God owes salvation to no man. Therefore unless He intervened into mankind all would be lost.



Brother, this is absolutely true! He doesn't owe anything to anyone.
But do you see what is His will in the Scriptures for the salvation of all men?

 2007/7/23 15:07Profile





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