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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : I am justified by works, and not by faith alone.

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 Re:

Quote:

InTheLight wrote:
Quote:
God, I admit to having once been a rebellious and wicked sinner. However, I repented of my sins and obeyed You the remainder of my life.



So then what happens when I haven't obeyed perfectly for the remainder of my life? Having been saved am I now under obligation to keep the law that could not save me, with the comfort of knowing that if I do not succeed Christ will intervene again and forgive my sins, but will do so with the object of again placing me under an obligation to keep the law?

I see a very different approach in the New Testament.

In Christ,

Ron



Then it is that we have an advocate with the Father who makes pleas in our behalf, correct?

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)

To live by faith unto good works acceptable to God is to live by the very life of Christ. Can anyone declare that he does? If not, why not?


 2007/7/23 8:00
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re: I am justified by works, and not by faith alone.

I want to briefly look at Ephesians 2:8-9 which seems to contradict James 2:24

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Paul is emphasizing that nothing you do will ever [i]earn[/i] or [i]merit[/i] you salvation. Nothing you do will ever cause you to [i]deserve[/i] forgiveness. Nothing you do will ever cause your [i]guilt[/i] to be removed.
The only way our sins are forgiven is by the grace of God, and that through faith.

However, to say that we can do nothing to be saved is contrary to scripture:

Acts 2:37
"Brothers, what shall we do?"

Acts 16:29
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

The answer is to have faith and repent.

In summary:

1. No work we can do will justify us; only God can justify us.
2. If we have faith and repentance God will justify us.
3. Therefore we are justified by faith and repentance.

Nile


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/7/23 8:30Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
I would point to these scriptures: Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins 1 John 3:6-9 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.



In answering my question by quoting these verses are you saying that nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of conversion is required? If so, that sounds very much like the Law, it declares, "For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them."(Rom 10:5). But for the one who would fail at any one point it declares, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."(Gal 3:10).

Brother, are you honestly going to stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and proclaim that you have perfectly obeyed God for the remainder of your life? If not, then why would you boast of any obedience at all? It is Christ who is made unto you righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, boast in Him alone. You will be as much in need of His grace after walking with Him for 40 years as you were on the day that you were born-again.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2007/7/23 10:03Profile
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Quote:
In answering my question by quoting these verses are you saying that nothing but perfect obedience from the moment of conversion is required?



I am saying that if you sin, you need to repent again, and unless you do you are not justified before God.

Quote:
If so, that sounds very much like the Law, it declares, "For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them."(Rom 10:5). But for the one who would fail at any one point it declares, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."(Gal 3:10).



I think he is here referring to the law of Moses, not to the law of the Spirit, the law of love.

Quote:
Brother, are you honestly going to stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and proclaim that you have perfectly obeyed God for the remainder of your life?



I will proclaim that I have followed Christ and have taken up my cross daily. That I have had faith in God to justify me and have obeyed His word. If I have fallen away from obedience to God, I will repent and turn back. Therefore I will proclaim that I have run the race and have finished strong.

Quote:
If not, then why would you boast of any obedience at all? It is Christ who is made unto you righteousness, sanctification, and redemption, boast in Him alone.



Why would I boast in my obedience? A servant does what he is told and expects no reward. My forgiveness comes from God alone and not from myself. I have nothing to boast of.

Quote:
You will be as much in need of His grace after walking with Him for 40 years as you were on the day that you were born-again.



I agree, only by His grace can we be cleansed from all sin and walk by the Spirit.

Here is my question to you:
This living faith that is required to be saved, what does it believe?

Nile


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Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/7/23 10:37Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Quote:
Now we can see why Paul would ask-
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?



According to Scripture we have two choices. The first is that we according to the flesh try to obey the law. The second is that according to the Spirit we are led to obey the law.

According to Scripture we are reconciled to God through the blood of His Son.

Romans 5:

10 "For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,..."

According to Scripture we are "saved" by His life.

Romans 5:10

"...much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

What does a life look like when one is obeying the Spirit?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/7/23 12:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Quote:
Now we can see why Paul would ask-
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?



According to Scripture we have two choices. The first is that we according to the flesh try to obey the law. The second is that according to the Spirit we are led to obey the law.

According to Scripture we are reconciled to God through the blood of His Son.

Romans 5:

10 "For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,..."

According to Scripture we are "saved" by His life.

Romans 5:10

"...much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

What does a life look like when one is obeying the Spirit?

In Christ
Jeff



What Law?

 2007/7/23 12:05
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Ormly askes

Quote:
What Law?



The law of the Spirit in Christ which was established before the foundation of this world.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/7/23 12:12Profile









 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Brother Ormly askes

Quote:
What Law?



The law of the Spirit in Christ which was established before the foundation of this world.

In Christ
Jeff



Man trying to obey the Law of Christ by his flesh and failing at it? I don't understand.

 2007/7/23 12:18
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Quote:
Man trying to obey the Law of Christ by his flesh and failing at it? I don't understand



We have been given the word of God. We can by reading it gain a picture of what God requires of us. Yet we in our daily walk cannot please God by placing ourselves within that picture.

Paul teaches this in Romans 7:

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Only by submitting to the Spirit's leading will one know "how to perform what is good."

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/7/23 12:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Quote:
Man trying to obey the Law of Christ by his flesh and failing at it? I don't understand



We have been given the word of God. We can by reading it gain a picture of what God requires of us. Yet we in our daily walk cannot please God by placing ourselves within that picture.

Paul teaches this in Romans 7:

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Only by submitting to the Spirit's leading will one know "how to perform what is good."

In Christ
Jeff


Really?? Then how about explaining those who never heard of Jesus Christ and yet still find/found approval in God?

Seems you need to make better distinctions.

 2007/7/23 13:12





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