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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is The 21st Century Church At A Crossroads ??

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sonofthunder
Member



Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Is The 21st Century Church At A Crossroads ??

As many of you would know from reading some of my previous writing's i have been around Christian circles for a considerable time ... i first heard the call to salvation in 1981 -- but true and lasting profession was not made until 1982. As a young child i was forced to attend Sunday school classes -- and religious education was compulsory at Primary school. So from a young age ive been confronted with spiritual things and the truth about God, it was never too far away so to speak ... and i can clearly see how that God had his sovereign hand upon me ~~ from a young boy.

And as we learn from both Jeremiah and from that of Paul that God seperates his chosen ONES from their mother's womb ( Glory saints ) he foreknew US all along! now that is hard for finite minds to comprehend and understand

Scholars and students alike often refer to this doctrine: As being that of pre-destination/ election/ and calling. We didn't chose him, but he chose us -- and set us apart unto his heavenly glory. Other places in the Word saying similiar things. That it is not of him that runneth (or) him that Willeth - BUT OF GOD THAT SHEWETH MERCY. ( Romans 9:16 ) And again we see that when Rebecca conceived ( the children being not yet being born, neither yet having done any good (or) evil -- so that God purposes according to ELECTION might stand. It was forecast in advance that the ELDER would serve the YOUNGER (that being JACOB)... as it is written Jacob has God loved -- but Esau have i hated (Whoa) stop right there and pause saints ... that's a massive proclamation. And difficult for theologians and students of the Word of God ~~ to come to terms and grips with !!

Paul however responds to any criticisms: by saying "what then - is their any unrighteousness with God? God forbid"!

It is within his sovereignty and within his own power ~ to determine how things unfold and how things Pan Out. Shall the thing that is formed then "spit the dummy" declaring why have you done so? But nay O'man ... God chooses to have mercy upon whom he has mercy (and) hardeneth whom he hardeneth ! As was the case with Pharaoh!

But what does all this have to do with the church being at a cross-roads? or the Church facing A FORK IN THE ROAD? one may well ask ... notwithstanding i am leading up to something and i am laying a platform for today's message ... so if you would bear with me ~ just a little longer

As i conveyed to someone recently in the forum in some ways my life resembles what occured in the apostle's life (that is Paul) (though i compare not my life to his testimony and godly example brethren) but that said i began my conversion experience as a spiritual torrential torrent and a smoking flax that would not be quenched ... in one sense if you would permit me to say this i'd like to think God was bragging on me ~~ like he did that of Joshua the high priest before Satan ... saying is not this a firebrand plucked out of the fire (O 'Satan).

And as i told someone in this board recently, i had it all before me (so to speak) ... i had a public ministry, i held open air crusades, i was active on the mission field -- conducted and organised public prayer meetings. Graduated from full-time bible school with distinctive kudos from all the staff administrators. And was constantly told by the Elders to stay humble before your God ~~ as a truly great ministry awaited me ... with the assistant pastor going so far to say that he believed multitudes would be saved as a result my preaching.

I also sat at the feet of one of the most esteemed theologians in his time (and era) i did this also for no less than 6 years. I utterly gave myself to sitting at this man's feet: and this esteemed theologian ... eating up and devouring every word and morsel that proceeded from his mouth!

I jumped on everything i could find, i devoured books, tapes, videos until those very things consumed me and were coming out of my ear holes ( in a manner of speaking ).. i think i might have heard preaching in my sleep and in the night visions ~~ i quipped and joked to myself.

But then it all changed with-in a few short months -- and to my astonishment it was all taken away from me ~~ it literally slipped through and past my fingers. And i could do nothing about it, except watch a growing ministry fade away from me ... and so from then on like daniel i sat astonied in my private chamber: And wondering "WHY" God ...why me -- what is happening -- why have you done this? and what pray tell ~~ have i done wrong? questions questions and more questions ~~ but very few answers ~~ i was truly perplexed.

Now i should hasten to add it was not due to moral indiscretion or anything of improprietious nature that i was unable to continue in the public 'eye". As i had walked in great victory over sins ~~ at that particular point - in time!

So it was out of my control ~~ only that i should commit my soul as unto a faithful creator (Amen!) And that divine intervention had taken the reigns: And so from that point onwards i was hardly known "by face" by many of the churches here in Australia -- now this went on for many, many years, however i still maintained close contact with the saints ~~ and with some close spiritual and trusted confidants.

I did not understand this fiery trial i had entered into, nor what God was doing in my life, only that he had withheld me from the course i was now on. A ministry that was seemingly waited to exlode ~~ But instead Imploded: and blew up in my face and i was set on my heel - and that God truly had other ideas.

Now here is what im leading up to! and i might add at this juncture that i have not articulated what ive just said topromote me or to "talk up" the things regarding ME. It is spoken to lay a platform -AND A FOUNDATION base ...regarding what i intend to write - here onwards.

We read in Galations after 17 years ( 17 long years ) Paul went up to Jerusalem "by revelation" and communicated to them that gospel -- which he was already PREACHING TO THE GENTILE NATIONS.

Because what he had to say and teach was not learnt ( from man ) or after some man's book or some man's DVD SERIES. NEITHER WAS IT "RECIEVED" from FORMER STUDIES LEARNT from being at THE FEET OF ONE (GAMALIEL) a doctor of the law. Now here's the crunch saints ... Paul says neither was i "taught it" at all ~~ but it came (by) the (revelation) of Jesus Christ. So what is my point am i trying to promote something "spiritually spooky" or by the living of "revelations"? nay brethren -- i too am extremely cautious of what the charismania world out there promotes, but that said do we then throw out the baby with the bathwater? sure the modern church has a lopsided view on this thing of "fresh revelation" and yea they have abused and mis-used it -- but does that follow that we should then "CAN" all "revelation" given by God? granted all revelation will beautifully harmonize with divine scripture ( to this we agree as DO the prophets )As it is written "the scripture cannot be broken".

BUT LET THE PROPHETS SPEAK ~~ TWO OR THREE, and let the others judge. And if anything be REVEALED to another ... hold your peace, let the prophet speak (O'man)

In trying to close out this message i hAVE now come to the conclusion that ive been held back and preserved -- to ensure that when i re-appear i am TRULY on the "right foundation" and understand where i am in the things of God, and where i fit in -- and where the (church is) in relation to God's timepiece and his timetable. To be on the cutting edge as it were: to be on the same spiritual page, and with finger firmly placed on the "spiritual pulse" ... and to know this threshhold -- of where the church of Jesus Christ currently stands.

To get my doctrine straight!! to BE on a "right platform" -- AND TO rightly divide-up the word of God. To understand his grace, justification by faith, THE new covenant/new testament message: and to know the power of that death and resurrected life ~~ and to conform to the very "doctrine of Christ" in all phases and aspects.

Paul was given full understanding of the new covenant ~~ and that to the "dis-mantling" of the levitical priesthood that was then in place. ~~ To the total quashing i might add of that of the Judaizers push for salvation by the deeds of the law. Now brethren i should add at this point that The "church at Thessalonica" is a classic example of how Paul got them started "out" on a right foundation ~~ and hovering "over them" against all the false doctrine ~~ and the many false brethren that were out there (yonder bout)

Paul says they lie in wait to decieve and through many good words and convincing arguments they decieve the hearts of the unlearned!!

Now James and the other brethren were preaching Jesus: but were combining it (with Law) and with Moses and with many aspects of the levitical priesthood. But Paul had the witness with-in his SPIRIT that something was NOT QUITE RIGHT AND WAS amiss ( see acts chapter 15 ) YOU SEE many were falling from grace as HE DETAILED IN the book of Galations ~~ with many others not understanding that the new testament had been officially launched through Christ's shed blood ( hebrews 9 )This is the new testament in my blood!

But under immense opposition from the religion of the Jews and even James insisting that Moses was still taught everywhere in all the synagogues --Paul stood his ground and continued teaching the new-testament message of salvation by Grace ~~ and everything else Christ's death at calvary had accomplished.

God does raise up certain men and leaders (L.R apostles and prophets) to lead thre flock through the veil: and thereby countering all the hype and all facades -- and all the sham ( cutting through it ): and shredding all the false winds of doctrine. ( now im probably not one of those men ) But when it happens ~~ will we listen to them? will we heed the message, and the voice? ... or will we "poo poo" it - and turn away?

Esau was determined to come out first from his mother's womb: and thereby being the first out was garanteed the inheritance and the blessing. But Jacob grabbed hold of his heel as they were coming out! Often what is first ~~ comes in last!
Often those that run can have a zeal -- but not according to knowledge. And what appears to be our "fore-runner" and our spiritual guides -- may have to make way for that that follows. And that that as it were ~~ comes in (behind it) sometimes spiritual blindness can have a point of no return ~~ it is of note that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John who all penned the certainty that Jesus was indeed the Christ -- were all written ABOUT 60 A.D ( By then MOST OF THE PHARISEE'S who rejected him as "the VERY Christ" HAD THEN PERISHED AND passed ON ) !

In closing we are children of the promise, born after the spirit and not after the flesh ... for in Isaac shall thy SEED be called ~~ and not in Hagar.

BUT AS THEN AND SO NOW ...THEY WHICH ARE BORN AFTER THE FLESH ~~ DO PERSECUTE THAT WHICH IS BORN AFTER THE SPIRIT.

Are we at a cross-roads?? will we as the chilren of israel fail to enter into HIS rest -- due to unbelief? or a promise being "left us" we fail to enter in!

WILL we scorn end-time messengers and those with the prophetic mantle upon them? WILL we despise our teachers ... will we fail to apply our lives to the scripture -- instead chosing perhaps the easier option of reading what other men had to say about the word of God? Instead of the Berean spirit which searched out those things to see if they WERE so? paying the cost to confirm what is ALREADY STATED AND WRITTEN !!

You be the judge?
take advice, consider, give heed
thanks for your time brethren
S.O.T



But at :-( :-o :-( :-(


_________________
Bro Stephen

 2007/7/21 23:22Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re: Is The 21st Century Church At A Crossroads ??

I have been there done that also. I have fought the Law for so long that I am almost to the point of giving up. If it were not for the Power of The Christ in me, I would and give in to their works salvation and commingle the Law with Grace and join the rest of the religious brethren just for the fellowship.

Law is so ingrained in our psyche that we cannot see what Grace truly is. Satan is the most law abiding religious person I know, even though he above all wants to take over where God is. The Law keeper and the Law liar, that is his throne.

Thank you for your post it gave me some hope that God is not dead, and there is still hope in the world by the Christ that is born again in us.


Still trusting in the Christ in us: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/7/22 2:26Profile
sonofthunder
Member



Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re:

IM GLAD YOU FOUND STRENGTH AND ENCOURAGEMENT

God bless you mightily

IN HIS NAME,

S.O.T

The post is more than just law Vs grace though
we need to see THAT paul was not taught what he brought to the church by "Man" ... no one tutored him - INTO IT ... no one sat down and they went through the verses - or THROUGH other peoples books AND TAPES !! it came by what? BY "revelation" ... we need to reALLY GET THAT POINT !!


_________________
Bro Stephen

 2007/7/24 3:58Profile









 Re: Is The 21st Century Church At A Crossroads ??

Hi S O T

I'm not sure if this fits with the title of what you wrote, or what you mean to say, but parts of your story ring a very loud bell personally.

You said:

Quote:
But then it all changed with-in a few short months -- and to my astonishment it was all taken away from me ~~ it literally slipped through and past my fingers. And i could do nothing about it, except watch a growing ministry fade away from me ... and so from then on like daniel i sat astonied in my private chamber: And wondering "WHY" God ...why me -- what is happening -- why have you done this? and what pray tell ~~ have i done wrong? questions questions and more questions ~~ but very few answers ~~ i was truly perplexed...


...I did not understand this fiery trial i had entered into, nor what God was doing in my life, only that he had withheld me from the course i was now on. A ministry that was seemingly waited to exlode ~~ But instead Imploded: and blew up in my face and i was set on my heel - and that God truly had other ideas.

I too had a ministry, not a great one but one that gave real contentment, feeding His "little ones" on the milk of the Word.

And bit by bit the Lord took away all of that. The Lord did it, not man - though He sometimes used men.

You mentioned the priest in Zech 3. It doesn't say it in so many words but it is plain that he had to be utterly stripped of his filthy garments before he could be reclothed. And all the time the Enemy's accusations came against him. Don't I know them!!! Rejection (by others, not my family), condemnation and guilt were my constant companions from a child.

Self-righteousness - striving desperately to be righteous in one's own strength - was also my constant clothing. Even when I realised they were only filthy rags I clung to them. I sought desperately for a purpose, to be "needed" by someone, to make myself accepted through ministry, through being useful, through anything - instead of finding my purpose in Him alone.

Brother, this stripping can take far longer than we can understand or accept, but if the Lord is to use us it has to happen. It may be sooner or later, quick or gradual, take many years or be over in less than one. It may come while we are still in some kind of public ministry (as with John Bunyan, who went through terrible depression and said that he preached "as a dying man to dying men", or one may be laid aside, as i was.

And the ministry we are given when it's done, when we are stripped and reclothed, may not be what we expect or desire. I have learned that the true ministry is in following the Lord day by day and being obedient, not in finding and fulfilling our purpose and calling.

Yes, there is a purpose and calling but not often what we understand of it, any more than the foot soldier knows why the General has ordered his platoon into a particular place. His job is to obey without question.

I still find that "without question" difficult!

Moses was 40 years in the wilderness, out of sight, after being a prince in Egypt for the first 40. But only after those wilderness years was he ready for God's call, ready to begin his ministry. (I have been a Christian for 40 years so that resonates! I just pray it won't take another 40 before the Lord can use me as He wants!)

Yet Samuel was called as a child and responded in childlike faith and trust and obedience.

Most of God's servants are somewhere in between.

The Lord hasn't finished with us yet!

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/7/24 18:49
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: Is The 21st Century Church At A Crossroads ??

Reply, Faith, is your righteousness, wait on your Lord


Psalms 4

1. Hear me when I call, O God of my righteousness: thou hast enlarged me when I was in distress; have mercy upon me, and hear my prayer.
2. O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame? how long will ye love vanity, and seek after leasing? Selah.
3. But know that the Lord hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the Lord will hear when I call unto him.
4. Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.
5. Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the Lord.
6. There be many that say, Who will shew us any good? Lord, lift thou up the light of thy countenance upon us.
7. Thou hast put gladness in my heart, more than in the time that their corn and their wine increased.
8. I will both lay me down in peace, and sleep: for thou, Lord, only makest me dwell in safety.


_________________
Eddie

 2007/7/25 19:22Profile





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