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 Re:

Quote:
KJ, it's very good that you understand this. Not many do. I suppose it must be experienced rather than acquired from a book.



Brother Paul- I completely agree. like I have said Way of the Master is a great place to start out, using the law to bring about the knowledge of sin (although there are dozens of NT scriptures that you can use in place of the 10 commandments)... however it is a terrible place to stay and can result in preaching that is just as fleshy and powerless as the modern gospel presentation.

I think because WOTM is SO much more biblical then what most people are exposed to in todays backslidden 'church', that some tend to cling to it as though it were an end all...

In Christ - Jim

 2007/7/20 11:05









 Re:

Quote:
Moses is still read in the Synagogue today, but still a veil remains over the eyes of the Jews.



Good word bro

 2007/7/20 11:06
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

KJ, it's very good that you understand this. Not many do. I suppose it must be experienced rather than acquired from a book. I've found out that there are no formulas with God, no efficacious orders of presentation. God looks for those who have purified their souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit. He searches for clean vessels that have no confidence in the flesh.



Amen.


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Jimmy H

 2007/7/20 11:08Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Way of the Master is a great place to start out, using the law to bring about the knowledge of sin (although there are dozens of NT scriptures that you can use in place of the 10 commandments)... however it is a terrible place to stay and can result in preaching that is just as fleshy and powerless as the modern gospel presentation.



Amen. Let it not be misunderstood that I am by anyways condemning WOTM. It, like Evangelism Explosion and so many other things, are great tools to utilize when preaching, and we can glean many principles from them that are indeed, rooted in Scriptures. But to use WOTM and other systems as a substitute for seeking the Lord yourself as to what you will preach, and seeking Him for an anointing and life-giving word, is error.

Any system of preaching, no matter how grounded it is Biblically speaking, will result in life. Look no further than the Law and the temple system for examples of this.


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Jimmy H

 2007/7/20 11:16Profile









 Re:

KingJimmy, I think we have a misunderstanding, my topic is on open air preaching, not preaching to sheep at the church. I'm saying that if you preach and convey God's attributes God-hating, sin loving, dead in sin, rebellious sinner; he will mock you or at best raise his eye brow. Presenting God's holy law is a part of His divine infinite character to show us who He is and what he requires. That is beauty in itself.

For example I would not shoot beautiful fireworks in the middle of a sunny day. No, I'd wait for a pitch dark sky so the glory of those fireworks would be magnified by the dark canvous sky. When we show sinners how dark and depraved their nature is through the law, then they can properly see all the glories of God through Christ crucified and resurrected.

That is where a true, passionate relationship with the Lord comes. By searching out his glory revealed from the law to the cross.

 2007/7/20 11:47
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

KingJimmy, I think we have a misunderstanding, my topic is on open air preaching, not preaching to sheep at the church.



Indeed, I'm talking about open-air preaching.

Quote:

I'm saying that if you preach and convey God's attributes God-hating, sin loving, dead in sin, rebellious sinner; he will mock you or at best raise his eye brow.



I don't think you actually understand what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actually demonstrating God's attributes through His manifest presence. Do you actually understand what I mean by God's manifest presence?

Quote:

When we show sinners how dark and depraved their nature is through the law, then they can properly see all the glories of God through Christ crucified and resurrected.



Indeed, and the law is good for pointing out sins. However, without a tangible expression of God's presence that accompanies preaching, such is all one will do.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/7/20 12:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Moses is still read in the Synagogue today, but still a veil remains over the eyes of the Jews.



Yes this is true but it doesn't change the fact that presenting the law makes sinners see that they must repent. You guys are acting like your above using the law when in fact Jesus, Paul, the apostles, and great preachers in church history all used the law as a top priority.
Just because the law is used doesn't mean all the jews or any sinner will believe. God is in control of that, it means you have faithfully and biblically exposed one's sin and have set one up to hear the glorious gospel of grace. The law doesn't remove the veil, God does, but he does by the means of preaching the law, sin, righteousness, judgement, holiness, repentence, and faith.

 2007/7/20 12:08









 Re:

God's presence comes through the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness and judgement. So what does the law do:
1. gives knowledge of sin
2. exposes sin
3. shows nobody has righteousness or any that is good enough
4. sentences a sinner guilty headed for judgement

 2007/7/20 12:12









 Re:

Quote:
You guys are acting like your above using the law when in fact Jesus, Paul, the apostles, and great preachers in church history all used the law as a top priority.



I dont mean to come across that way bro. I open air preach, preach behind a pulpit and street witness weekly.. and I use the law quite often... just not exclusively. Jesus also used self denial... "Sell your possesions and give to charity", as with the law, you'll catch fewer false converts with that one too.

Here are the main scriptures that I have been preaching from lately

1 Cor 6:9-10
Rev 21:6-8
Heb 10:26-30
1 John 3:4-10
etc...

The first two clearly name obvious and besetting sin and the latter two clearly say that nobody living like this will enter into the kingdom even if they go to church...

in Christ - Jim

 2007/7/20 12:17
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Yes this is true but it doesn't change the fact that presenting the law makes sinners see that they must repent. You guys are acting like your above using the law when in fact Jesus, Paul, the apostles, and great preachers in church history all used the law as a top priority.



I think you may be misunderstanding KJ. From what I gather he essentially is saying, "It's not a method people need, nor a 5 step plan, but a revelation of God."

Surely God can and does reveal himself through preaching "law" but He isn't bound to a principle that says "law first, then grace."


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Josh Parsley

 2007/7/20 12:20Profile





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