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Discussion Forum : Welcome & Intro : How free is our will???

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 How free is our will???

I want pose the question on free will. Do we have free will to come to God? If yes, explain. If no, then do we have free will at all?

 2007/7/19 14:48
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: How free is our will???

The natural man has freedom in the sense that he can make decisions for himself, but those decisions are governed by his will that is enslvaed to sin.

It is much like the rudder of a boat. The rudder dtermines the direction of the boat, and though the boat goes along on its way, the rudder dictates the direction.

Here are some Scriptures-
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, [b]Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[/b]

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, [b]that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.[/b]

Welcome aboard, and blessings to you.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/19 15:20Profile
JennRich
Member



Joined: 2006/7/17
Posts: 140
Alabama

 Re:

In our fallen nature, we would never choose to come to God, because we are incapable of any truly good acts or decisions. ("There is none who does good, not even one." Ps. 53:3.)

We require a whole new nature in order to choose to come to God. This new nature can only come from God Himself.


_________________
Jennifer Richardson

 2007/7/19 16:25Profile
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

Yes, I believe we have the free will to choose to obey God or not. God has offered salvation to all and now it is our responsibility to believe or not.

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. Heb. 3:15

Just like in the garden God gave Adam and Eve one rule and they chose to disobey. Many say man is enslaved to sin and cannot free himself. While this is true we can still seek freedom. The only one who can grant that freedom is Jesus Christ.

A man who has never heard the gospel cannot be free, because he cannot believe and seek Christ. But a man who has heard can repent and believe(obey)or harden his heart(disobey).

Never forget that God is not willing that any should perish, but that [i][b]ALL[/b][/i] should come to repentance. God doesn't say something just to be talking He means all when he says all. For God so loved the world.

Love you all-TimmyJoe

 2007/7/19 17:45Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Just like in the garden God gave Adam and Eve one rule and they chose to disobey. Many say man is enslaved to sin and cannot free himself. While this is true we can still seek freedom. The only one who can grant that freedom is Jesus Christ.



We are not like Adam and Eve at all, as they were created without sin, but gave into sin, and thus all afterwards have inherited that sin, and the death that comes with it.

Your statement that a man in enslaved is true, yet the Biblical picture of man is that though he is enslaved, he does not want to be set free, and those who do have been convicted of their enslavement. No man will seek for freedom from what he enjoys, and fallen man loves sin.

Quote:
Never forget that God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance. God doesn't say something just to be talking He means all when he says all. For God so loved the world.



This verse is not written to unbelievers, but rather believers who were going through tremendous trials. Peter writes to encourage them that not one of those of a specific group would not perish, that group being the elect.

As for God so loving the world, this is not the main point of this passage, but rather the next part, "that whosoever [b]BELIEVETH[/b] in Him shall not perish..."

Of course a man cannot come to Christ on his own as Christ said, "no man can come to me unless the father which has sent me draws him.."
(John 6:44)


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patrick heaviside

 2007/7/19 18:49Profile









 Re:

Now this is spreading onto the "Welcome & Intro" section.

I find no fault in anything Timothy said and think we should leave this in the Scripture & Doctrine or General Sections.
That's where I'll copy and paste Roar's reply.


This is some sort of "Intro" --- right off the bat --- here we go again with more discord among us.

Unbelievable!

 2007/7/19 19:13
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Brother Timmy,
Please forgive me for coming off a bit harsh. I should have welcomed you here first and foremost.

I ask for your forgiveness, and welcome you.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/19 20:42Profile









 Re:

God gives is the power to do anything that He commands us to do.

God will not send you to hell for doing something, unless He gave you the power not to do it.

 2007/7/20 0:03
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
God will not send you to hell for doing something, unless He gave you the power not to do it.



So if man has the ability to keep the moral Law, then why does God send people to Hell for not keeping it?

Or is it simply that people are sent to hell because they reject God's prescribed righteousness, and look to create their own, and thus trample Christ under foot, and treat Him as nothing?


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/20 1:31Profile









 Re:

God sends people to hell for their crimes, for their rebellion, for their sin. Revelations 21:8 and 1Cor 6:9-10 says men go to hell for adultery, murder, jealousy, sodomy, lying, etc etc. These things are all sin. Sinners go to hell for sin.

But the criminality of sin is conditioned upon the fact that sin is optional and avoidable. If it wasn't avoidable and optional, then there could be no guilt.

It's it would be like going to jail for being black. There is no criminality in your skin color because that is not a choice you make. Criminality is derived only from voluntary choices.

And so sinners deserve hell because they sin, and sin is a voluntary choice, it's totally avoidable and optional, yet sinners do it anyways. And therefore they are criminals and rebels who justly deserve hell.

 2007/7/20 4:10





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