Doesn't Paris Reidhead believe that you are saved daily from sin.
I don't actually know what he believes, I think his point in that sermon was more that salvation is so much more than 'going to Heaven'. According to that list I gave you, the 'going to heaven' part, in terms of security, would be 'I WAS saved from the penalty of sin - justification'. I guess his point is that salvation is so much more than going to Heaven, it's about Heaven coming to you and changing your life, your heart, your mind and your interests.
One day you can be saved then one day you can be lost.
I've often toyed with this one. It all comes down to what do you mean by saved - it seems to me you're talking about the 'security' aspect of it. I mean the Bible mentions abiding in the Vine, forgiveness, and other things. I think there's a fine line between committing sin but still being saved, and practicing sin, which the Bible clearly shows means you aren't saved.
Reidhead actually also questions the motive of salvation quite a lot, in 'Ten Shekels and a Shirt' he says something about the only people he believes that God testifies are born again are those who say in their heart at some point to God "I'm going to love you and serve you with all my heart, even if I go to Hell at the end of the day because you are worthy" - I'd challenge you to fall in love with Jesus to this point (you may be already) and from then it doesn't matter so much as 'when', because it becomes about 'who'. It then becomes an active 'day to day' thing. I have been saved from the pleasure of sin, I don't enjoy it anymore. But I also know that God continually saves me and that when His Wrath and Judgement come, He will save me.
What happens if the day you are lost that is the day Christ takes you home or comes back.
I find this a dangerous question. I've heard people say "So what, if you're a Christian and go to church for your whole life and follow Him and then you don't forgive someone one day or you sin and you no longer go to Heaven?" - A lifetime of holiness doesn't justify a second in Heaven - so if you die on a day in which you are living in rebellion against God and in disobedience to the Gospel - I believe you have already chosen your own destiny by your actions.
confess with your mouth that Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
I hear this one quite a bit - I'm not sure it's quite right. I liked your comments afterwards. I think the context of confessing with your mouth Jesus as Lord in Rome was a big one. Remember this was a time when all of Rome was declaring that "Caesar is Lord" and that to say anyone else (especially Jesus) was Lord resulted in death. In many ways I think Paul's saying here "anyone who is willing to be crucified for Jesus Christ and trust in Him in his heart will be saved" - I'm no sure, but it's an idea. Note again the "will be" saved though - the NT refers to salvation a lot more in the future tense than we do as Chistians today.
Well anyway, there's some thoughts - I don't believe Christ can be your Saviour without being your Lord, because if Christ isn't your Lord, Sin is. But that's another post for another day :)
| 2007/7/21 13:27||Profile|
I noticed that most of the responses so far expressed the things WE do, but really, salvation is the work of God - and we can't always know where the Spirit is blowing.
Let's admit, countless have "confessed their sins" and "asked Jesus into their hearts, promising to follow him" - but alas.... good intentions are not God's criteria. Nor, the way he works. He works at a deeper level in our hearts.
So much of God's work in a heart happens "undergound" - like the seed in the soil. In fact, trying to use evidence can be tricky. I've been fooled many times, even about myself. We might see "shoots" growing out of the ground soon after the seeds got planted - and then the sun scorches it - because there are no roots.
Since God didn't endow us with accurate undergound-detecting devises I suggest we excercise caution when trying to define or diagnose precise "moments" of salvation. We are all too often wrong.
Besides, as someone said, it's not how we start, but how we finish that counts in the end.
Rev. 2:7 to him who overcomes...
2:11 He who overcomes...
2:17 To him wo overcomes
2:26To him who overcomes and does my will
21:7 He who overcomes will inherit..
| 2007/7/21 13:57||Profile|
| Re: When are you saved?|
Well I believe that you are not saved just by saying a prayer. It has to be a turning from sin, and wanting to serve God. When a person is first saved, and if they truly realize they are sinners and want to follow Christ then He will show them what they need to change. He may use other people to bring it to thier attention, or He may convict them of it. Then it is up to them to repent of it.
| 2007/7/21 15:05||Profile|
I Adamdawkins, I appreciate your input, very concise and well stated. Especially now, it has been a question worth studying. Its not so much the how, but WHO! I don't want to seem cynical or an antagonist, but the past few months I have hungered for real Biblical truth. Not what my church has been "so called" preaching. Don't get me wrong, I like my church and love the people. But I often feel like there is some inaccuracies. I thirst for righteous, Holiness, wanting to know the CROSS of Jesus. Not church lingo. I often feel alone in desiring these attributes. And feel the church has come to "seeker friendly". When I read Spurgeon, Macarthur, Luther, Paul Washer, and on and on. I feel they got it. There was a reverence to the Lord. Luther has been said to say: To have studied well is to have prayed well. Where are those men today, who are those Godly men, like on this webpage? Its like God is opening my eyes and my heart to something I am not sure about. I feel like a radical sometimes, wanting to uphold truth and combating those that seem to be teaching heresy. Maybe I am cynical. I have been praying for sometime now for the Lord to show me HIMSELF, not what church teaches, wanting to hate the sin in my life and see the sin that crushed you. To know see His holiness, fear and tremble, and do not sin. I appreciate this venue to be with believers that seem to feel the same way. I am tired of counting people because the said a prayer! If that is true conversion, then lets bring the discipleship in to these (maybe) new converts. There is so much that I am wherry of, I so long to have Jesus Christ lifted up and His spirit made known.
Not sure how I got on that rabbit trail.
Thanks for all the adive.
| 2007/7/21 18:06||Profile|
Wow Wow Wow!
Praise God! What you just wrote there is almost the [i]EXACT[/i] thing that I went through a couple of months ago! Suddenly hungering for more than what I was being told, and asking the Lord for HIM to teach me what Scripture truly said, and where my short-comings were in light of the Word.
Brother, we definitely need to talk further!
| 2007/7/21 18:11||Profile|
It's so tempting to find a formula for our salvation. The truth is that it's different for different people. I believe that it's about our surrender to Christ as Lord in our lives. I believe that you can be saved without having assurance of salvation (different from security). You can have assurance of salvation in your heart and yet be completely selfish and carnal in which case you do not really believe in Christ.
I don't believe that everyone has a specific date that they were saved. I personally do not know the point at which I was saved, where I passed from death to life, but I believe that my life is in surrender to God.
| 2007/7/21 21:05||Profile|