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 Re:

Ginny I took that to mean the visitor represented America. Since they are saying the vision is not genuine, it's up for grabs of what the woman represents.

 2007/7/20 17:33
IC
Member



Joined: 2005/7/1
Posts: 4


 Re:

Quote:
Ginny I took that to mean the visitor represented America. Since they are saying the vision is not genuine, it's up for grabs of what the woman represents.



She Stands alone

 2007/7/20 18:12Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re:

I thought the lady is the one who introduced Washington to the message, as though she is the moderator. Read it again. What do you think?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/7/20 19:40Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I thought the lady is the one who introduced Washington to the message, as though she is the moderator.



A woman moderator?

Scandalous!!!

 2007/7/20 20:15
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
A woman moderator?


Quote:
Scandalous!!!



LOL

Ok, Corey, what role did that female have in [bogus] dream?

Corey, you know what? Me thinks this is a rather fruitless discussion, do you not think? lol

On the other hand, the messenger in this vision was a female. In all the visions I have read that were from the LORD, the angels were depicted as males. But this one appears to have been a female. Clear as mud or do I need to explain it more?

Oh, sigh...

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/7/20 20:28Profile









 Re:

You are right ginnyrose. That hits ya right at the top.

"Angelos" is Male in the Bible always.

The masonic types use "woman" figures a lot.

And the cults too of course.

Feminism and goddess worship like Wicca, and the "goddess earth", all female and all twisted.

If a female entity showed up in my room, I'd throw a Bible at it. HA.

 2007/7/20 21:07
jordanamo
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397


 Re:

Quote:
On the other hand, the messenger in this vision was a female. In all the visions I have read that were from the LORD, the angels were depicted as males. But this one appears to have been a female. Clear as mud or do I need to explain it more?



Quote:
"Angelos" is Male in the Bible always.



I don't see a problem with some angels being female. Although I do accept that not many are mentioned in the Bible, I see a mentioning here....

Zechariah 5:9-11 Then I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, two women coming forward! The wind was in their wings. They had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between earth and heaven. Then I said to the angel who talked with me, “Where are they taking the basket?” He said to me, “To the land of Shinar, to build a house for it. And when this is prepared, they will set the basket down there on its base.” (ESV)

 2007/7/20 21:19Profile









 Re:

There are no female angels brother.

This passage is just symbolism, like the "whore" lady of babylon type thing.
Only prophets were shown symbolism with women in them.

Maybe some commentaries can explain better.

Quotes:

K&D ~

Zec 5:9-11 -
Zec_5:9. “And I lifted up my eyes, and saw, and behold there came forth two women, and wind in their wings, and they had wings like a stork's wings; and they carried the ephah between earth and heaven. Zec_5:10. And I said to the angel that talked with me, Whither are these taking the ephah? Zec_5:11. And he said to me, To build it a dwelling in the land of Shinar: and it will be placed and set up there upon its stand.” The meaning of this new scene may easily be discovered. The ephah with the woman in it is carried away between earth and heaven, i.e., through the air. Women carry it because there is a woman inside; and two women, because two persons are required to carry so large and heavy a measure, that they may lay hold of it on both sides (תּשּׂנה with the א dropped; cf. Ges. §74, Anm. 4). These women have wings, because it passes through the air; and a stork's wings, because these birds have broad pinions, and not because the stork is a bird of passage or an unclean bird. The wings are filled with wind, that they may be able to carry their burden with greater velocity through the air. The women denote the instruments or powers employed by God to carry away the sinners out of His congregation, without any special allusion to this or the other historical nation. This is all that we have to seek for in these features, which only serve to give distinctness to the picture. But the statement in Zec_5:11 is significant: “to build it a house in the land of Shinar.” The pronoun לה with the suffix softened instead of לּהּ, as in Exo_9:18; Lev_13:4 (cf. Ewald, §247, d), refers grammatically to האיפה; but so far as the sense is concerned, it refers to the woman sitting in the ephah, since a house is not built for a measure, but only for men to dwell in. This also applies to the feminine form הנּתחה, and to the suffix in מכנתהּ. The building of a house indicates that the woman is to dwell there permanently, as is still more clearly expressed in the second hemistich. הוּכן refers to בּית , and is not to be taken hypothetically, in the sense of “as soon as the house shall be restored,” but is a perfect with Vav consec.; and hūkhan, the hophal of kūn, is not to be taken in the sense of restoring, but, in correspondence with mekhunâh, in the sense of establishing or building on firm foundations. Mekhunâh: the firmly established house. In this the woman of sin is brought to rest. The land in which the woman of sin carried away out of the holy land is permanently to dwell, is the land of Shinar. This name is not to be identified with Babel, so as to support the conclusion that it refers to a fresh removal of the people of Israel into exile; but according to Gen_10:10 and Gen_11:2, Shinar is the land in which Nimrod founded the first empire, and where the human race built the tower of Babel which was to reach to the sky. The name is not to be taken geographically here as an epithet applied to Mesopotamia, but is a notional or real definition, which affirms that the ungodliness carried away out of the sphere of the people of God will have its permanent settlement in the sphere of the imperial power that is hostile to God. The double vision of this chapter, therefore, shows the separation of the wicked from the congregation of the Lord, and their banishment into and concentration within the ungodly kingdom of the world. This distinction and separation commenced with the coming of the Messiah, and runs through all the ages of the spread and development of the Christian church, until at the time of the end they will come more and more into outward manifestation; and the evil, having been sifted out by the judicial power of God and His Spirit, will form itself into a Babel of the last days, as Ezekiel 38 and 39 clearly show, and attempt a last struggle with the kingdom of God, in which it will be overcome and destroyed by the last judgment.

John Gill ~

Zec 5:9 - Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked,.... This is not a new vision, but a continuation of the former, as appears from the "ephah" seen in it:

and, behold, there came out two women; out of the same place the "ephah" did. The Targum explains these "two women" by two provinces; and Kimchi interprets them of the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin, who had been carried captive into Babylon; and others of the two kings, Jehoiakim and Zedekiah, who were the cause of the captivity; but Jarchi understands by them the Babylonians and Chaldeans, two nations as one, joined in Nebuchadnezzar's armies, which carried them captive: others think the two reformers, Ezra and Nehemiah, are meant, who were instruments of purging the Jews, returned from captivity, though but weak ones, and therefore are compared to "women"; yet what they did they did swiftly, and therefore are said to have "wings", and under the influence of the Spirit of God; hence the "wind", or "spirit" (f), is said to be in their wings; and they acted from a tender regard to the glory of God and the good of their country; and therefore their wings were like the "wings of a stork"; a bird of passage, as appears from Jer_8:7 and so a fit emblem to be used in the transportation of the "ephah"; of whom Pliny (g) says, from whence they come, and whither they betake themselves, is yet unknown; and adds, there is no doubt that they come from afar; as it is plain they must, if that relation be true, which seems to have good authority, that one of these creatures, upon its return to Germany, brought a green root of ginger with it; which must come from the eastern part of the world; from Arabia, or Ethiopia, or the East Indies, where it grows (h): and as it is a bird that takes such long flights, it must have wings fitted for such a purpose; and which are taken notice of in Job_39:13 to which the wings and feather of the ostrich are compared; for so Bochart (i) there renders the word, "the wing of the ostriches rejoices, truly the wing" as of "a stork, and the feather"; or, as others, "who gave wings to the stork and ostrich?" both remarkable for their wings: and Vatablus renders the word here an "ostrich"; which, according to Pliny (k), is the largest of birds, and almost as big as a beast. In Ethiopia and Africa they are taller than a horse and his rider, and exceed the horse in swiftness; and their wings seem to be given them to help them in running; but which are not sufficient to lift them much above the earth, and so can not be meant here; but rather the stork, whose wings are black and white; and when they fly, they stretch out their necks forwards, and their feet backwards, and with these direct their course; when a tempest rises, standing on both feet, they spread their wings, lay their bill upon their breast, and turn their face that way the storm comes (l). The Targum renders it an eagle, which is the swiftest of birds, and whose wings are very strong to bear anything upon them, as they do their young, to which the allusion is, Deu_32:11 and so, if meant here, to lift up and bear away the ephah between the earth and the heaven; but the word is never used of that bird. The Harpies or Furies, with the Heathens, are represented, as women having wings (m) as these women are said to have; but these are very different women from them. Though some think the Romans, under Vespasian and Titus, are intended; but it may be that the two, perfections of God, his power and justice, in punishing men for their sins, are meant, particularly in the last times, and at the day of judgment. The power of God will be seen in raising the dead; in bringing all to judgment; in separating the wicked from the righteous, and in the execution of the sentence denounced on them: and the justice of God will be very conspicuous in the judgment and destruction of them.

And the wind was in their wings; they had wings, as denoting swiftness, as angels are said to have; hence Maimonides, as Kimchi observes, thought that angels are here meant; but this denotes, that though God is longsuffering, and may seem to defer judgment, which is sometimes a stumbling to the righteous, and a hardening to the wicked; yet, as this is only for the salvation of his elect, so when once the time is up, and the commission given forth, power and justice will speedily execute the sentence: and the "wind" being in their wings shows the greater swiftness and speed in the dispatch of business, and the great strength and force with which they performed it:

for they had wings like the wings of a stork; which, being a creature kind and tender, show that there is no cruelty in the displays of the power and justice of God in punishing sinners:

and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven; which denotes the visibility of the whole measure of the sins of wicked men; they will all be made manifest, and brought into judgment: and also the visibility of their punishment; they will go into everlasting punishment, in the sight of angels and men; and which will be the case of the antichristian beast, Rev_17:8.

(f) רוח "spiritus", V. L. Pagninus, Montanus, Calvin, Burkius. (g) Nat. Hist. l. 10. c. 23. (h) Vid. Bochart. Hierozoic. par. 2. l. 2. c. 29. col. 328, 332. (i) Ibid. c. 16. col. 247, 248. (k) Nat. Hist. l. 10. c. 1. (l) Schotti Physica Curiosa, par. 2. l. 9. c. 26. p. 1162. (m) "Harpyiae et magnis quatiunt clangoribus alas." Virgil. Aeneid. l. 3. ver. 223.

 2007/7/20 21:27
jordanamo
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397


 Re:

You may be right Annie, I don't know... Not a deal worth arguing over, that's for sure.

 2007/7/20 22:45Profile









 Re:

Brother you have a tender heart and I would never think for a minute to argue with you.
Anyone who would post what you did today about Tammy Faye has a big big heart. Bless it.

I only worry for those who are having so many "visions" out there and "talk to angels" and have "visitations" and the big rage of collecting "angel babies and foxy looking angel ladies". Hoy!

In the Greek the word for angel is in the male gender. That's all I meant.

LORD Bless you brother and your post touched me deeply.
Thank you for caring about people.

annie

 2007/7/20 23:16





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