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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : john 8:35

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whyme
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Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 john 8:35



I have been trying to figure out what Jesus meant in John 8:35 in the context of his discussion of some people being "of God" or children of God and some being "children of the devil" in John 8:31-47. Any help?

 2007/7/14 16:54Profile









 Re: john 8:35

Jesus was talking to those who "claimed" to have God and Abraham as their father, thus making them "sons" but they weren't because they didn't believe the Words of Messiah, Who is God in the flesh and they didn't recognise Him as thus.

Slaves don't get to stay in house forever, only true sons do.

Jesus said these pharisees had a 'different' father and it wasn't Him Who was God nor Abraham.

They were slaves to sin and the sin was, they didn't recognise their day of Visitation by 'Him'.

Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 2007/7/14 19:05
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



It is interesting to see how the Greek renders this. Here is part from Robertson's NT WOrd Pictures-
Ye will do (θέλετε ποιεῖν)
Wrong. Properly, ye will to do. Rev., it is your will to do. See on Joh 7:17.

Here is what Thayers has to say about the phrase "will do"
G2309
θέλω / ἐθέλω
thelō / ethelō
Thayer Definition:
1) to will, have in mind, intend
1a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose
1b) to desire, to wish
1c) to love
1c1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
1d) to take delight in, have pleasure

The reason they sought to do the will of satan was because they were of like passions or desires, thus because the intentions initiated with satan, he was their father. They had been enslaved by him to do his will, as is the case with all unitl they are freed.

Compare that with these verses-
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And [b]that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.[/b]

Hope this helps you in your understanding, every blessing to you.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/14 19:21Profile
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

I had another thought as well. Is it possible the children of God or those who are of God are the slaves of the house whereas the children of the devil are the sons of the house? Jesus could speak to the slaves and they could hear and believe and He could truly set them free but the sons of the house could not hear Jesus ( nor believe Him ) and therefore could not be set free ( since they weren't captive anyway ) because they were sons of the devil and were to remain forever. I know that is a disturbing interpretation but it seems contextual. The question then would be when did these children of the devil become so. BTW Annie, the people Jesus was talking to in that verse were Jews in general and it could even be said He was speaking to those who thought they believed in Him (see John 8:31 ).

 2007/7/14 19:43Profile









 Re:

Hi brother, I was starting from the top of that chapter when reading it.

He only made one statement "to those who believed in Him", then the others started back up again.


Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Mostly Pharisees charged him and whatever Jews which followed them.

The servants are the ones who have satan as their father. They are not the sons in this chapter.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Read the whole of the chapter together as one event.
If you have a red-letter version, check when HE goes back and forth also from "he said unto them" and then "they said unto him".

 2007/7/14 23:17





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