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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Daniel 8:13-14, experienced scholars required

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 Re: Daniel 8:13-14, experienced scholars required

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a [b]time, times, and an half[/b]; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." (DAN 12:7)

"But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up [b]three years and six months[/b], when great famine was throughout all the land;" (LUK 4:25)

"Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of [b]three years and six months[/b]." (JAM 5:17)

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a [b]thousand two hundred and threescore days[/b], clothed in sackcloth." (REV 11:3)

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a [b]thousand two hundred and threescore days[/b]." (REV 12:6)

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a [b]time, and times, and half a time[/b], from the face of the serpent." (REV 12:14)

 2007/7/13 3:02









 Re:

Some interesting parallels between Daniel's Vision and St. John the Divine's Revelation:

First, Daniel is not alone during His encounter with the angel. I reckon John is one of the saints on the other side of the river...

"Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?" (DAN 8:13)

"Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river." (DAN 12:8)

...because both witness an angel with a book...

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found [b]written in the book[/b]." (DAN 12:1)

"And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand [b]a little book open[/b]: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices." (REV 1:1-3)

...both are told not to reveal certain mysteries...

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." (DAN 12:4)

"And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not." (REV 10:4)

...and both witness the angel raise his right hand to swear to God...

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." (DAN 12:7)

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer." (REV 10:5-6)

In Star Trek they call this a "Space/Time Anomaly". I don't know the theological term for it.

Hope this helps.

 2007/7/13 3:25









 Re:

Quote:

Corey_H wrote:
"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a [b]time, times, and an half[/b]; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." (DAN 12:7)

"But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up [b]three years and six months[/b], when great famine was throughout all the land;" (LUK 4:25)

"Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of [b]three years and six months[/b]." (JAM 5:17)

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a [b]thousand two hundred and threescore days[/b], clothed in sackcloth." (REV 11:3)

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a [b]thousand two hundred and threescore days[/b]." (REV 12:6)

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a [b]time, and times, and half a time[/b], from the face of the serpent." (REV 12:14)

Also Daniel 5:25-28 [i][color=000099]25 “And this is the inscription that was written:
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
26 This is the interpretation of each word. Mene: God has numbered your kingdom, and finished it; 27 Tekel: You have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting; 28 Peres: Your kingdom has been divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.” [/color][/i]

MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN literally means, [i][b]"number, number, weigh, divide"[/b][/i] or the sums of money, [b][i]"a minah, a minah, a shekel and a half"[/b][/i]. Which if you discount the difference in value between a minah and a shekel is again [u]three and a half[/u].

It's also thought that the period of Jesus' earthly ministry was three and a half years.

Daniel 9:27[i][color=000066] 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”[/color][/i]Again the "middle of the week" is [u]three and a half days[/u]

As well as being in some cases literal the three and a half is symbolic. It seems symbolic of the time when the Lord witholds His judgement. At the end of the "three and a half" the judgement is declared, sentence is passed, evil receives its just due.

Even in Jesus' ministry this can be said:

John 12:31
[i][color=000066]Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.[/color][/i]

John 16:7-11
[i][color=003366]7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 [u]of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged[/u].[/color][/i]

That's my take on it anyway.

There's also the matter of multiple fulfillments of prophecy, that someone (Annie?) has already touched on.

That's one reason I wouldn't be dogmatic on where exactly we are in all this. Obviously we are far nearer the end of this world as we know it, far nearer to the second coming of the Lord and the "new heavens and new earth". Personally I have a feeling I may see it while still in ths body.

Another reason for not being dogmatic is that i'm hopeless at maths, and tend to find all these so many thousand days confusing!

I once tried to check on the 1,260 days, which should come to another three and a half years, and couldn't get it anywhere near.

Turned out I was dividing by the number of yards in a mile instead of days in a year!!!

How many yards in a year? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jeannette

 2007/7/13 10:58





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