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 Josef

(smile)...you're funny. Tell Patrick to give his address and phone,when he can, I stand ready to support the Ministry of the Word there, where you all are, I been making a few tents. It's about to get hot there soon, so stay hydrated, both physically and spiritually.

In Jesus love.

 2007/7/14 16:05
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I refuse to call a building the church, for that is not the church.



Amen, brother! Has anyone here said that a concrete "building" is, in itself, the actual assembly of believers? I'm only being a stickler with this because I grow weary of zealous believers (I'm not saying this is you, dear brother) stigmatizing people who fellowship in a building on Sunday mornings as lukewarm or apostate. I humbly propose that there's nothing wrong with buildings, or meeting in buildings, or even having weekly "church" in a building. God doesn't hate church buildings, or those "called out of the world" that choose to gather in church buildings. If a person needs a fixation pertaining to something God "hates" or what should be an object of His wrath, well, why not try pride and haughty looks and the sowing of discord among brethren for starters? You can find these things virtually [i]everywhere[/i]: on the street corners, in the park, behind the pulpit, in this forum, at house-church gatherings, non-denominational prayer meetings. Such things are about as ubiquitous as germs in the air.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/7/14 17:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:

ce4 said:
Most churches offer far more good than harm. But I tell you Jim, I keep looking for grace and love in your writings, it's nowhere to be found.



The majority of "churches" are preaching a false gospel, creating false converts and putting them to sleep so they can get to hell quicker. This is not 'loving their neighbors as themselves'. even if a free Sunday brunch is included in the service.

Funny that you would write such an absurd comment then turn on me with a personal attack based on a couple posts in this thread... may the grace of God and His Holy Spirit lead you in all truth.

Quote:

worm said:
however many days you need and just pray and fast, and read and be in the Word, I'm being very serious, because dear brother, you are starting to sound like another young zealot street preacher I know, and that isnt good. It's a very slippery slope down to Smock Lane.



as you know I have been blessed to labor on the streets of innercity Detroit with brother Josef for over a year. Although he would not want me writing this I tell you plainly that he is the most godly saint I have ever met. He weeps and travails in prayer over the lost, those on the streets and in the babylonian church system while lesser saints enjoy entertainment, leisure and wordly pursuits.

The funny thing about a prophet is that they are hidden in prayer, hearing from God and are only seen by the lukewarm public when they are sent out to rebuke their compromised personal lives and religous systems. (and of course they are rarely received well)

Be very careful not to start undermining Josefs prayer life, love or burden. Just as when you called me a pharisee who sits in a pew (obviously not hearing from the Spirit on that one!) you are making incredible false alligations against brother Josef and you need to repent.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/7/14 23:00









 Re:

Quote:
If a person needs a fixation pertaining to something God "hates" or what should be an object of His wrath, well, why not try pride and haughty looks and the sowing of discord among brethren for starters? You can find these things virtually everywhere: on the street corners, in the park, behind the pulpit, in this forum, at house-church gatherings, non-denominational prayer meetings. Such things are about as ubiquitous as germs in the air.



Brother paul, in all fairness God does specifically and continually throughout scripture call out specifically those who gather in what is called his house (though we the brethren are his house). That is all this article reflects, that God hated and hates these types of 'feast days' in particular.

BTW, PM me sometime dear brother. I hope that we may get to meetup at the conference in October?

In Christ - Jim

 2007/7/15 0:12









 Re: Jim

you wrote:

Quote:
you need to repent.



In a second, of course. What I was writing was the words I SAW ON A SCREEN, not the man, that's the bane of this form of intercourse, we are not face to face. and sometimes when I read a sermon, an exhortation, a rebuke to the church, etc, and it doesnt read "right" to me, I must speak, and sometimes words are sweet,sometimes not, either way.

I didnt write that as non-repentant repentance, when I repent, I repent, when I ask "forgive me", it is without equivocation.

I responded so early in the day, just as I begun to my daily course of Scripture reading, because I'm in First Thessolonians, and in chapter 5 , verse 11 (a+b) I read this, which I think appropriate:

"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up".........

I said "a+b" because the verse goes on to conclude......"just as in fact you are doing".

If I have failed in this latter respect with both you dear brothers, I repent and ask forgiveness.

 2007/7/15 9:26
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear brothers and sisters,

i guess the reason i would perfer to meet in a home or park or whatever is because of the steep overhead of the church building, morgage, multiple salaries and vehicle maintence just to name a few. of course my experience has been in quite a few churches all over the US, but i would not be so arrogant as to say that evryone who meets in a building is wrong. i know of a brother who had a small storefront church in the inner-city and he met there faithfully with the few that came and taught them of Christ. i have no problem with that at all.

i guess the question to me is..

* what is happening when we meet??

* are we truly building each other up??

* is our giving really supporting widows and poor and homeless?? or ourselves??

* is everyone participating in the service so that we can all add something to each other?? or is it dominated by one man (only hearing one part of the body)??

* are we loving each other all throughout the week?? or just giving courtesy small talk when at church and forgetting about one another between sundays??

* are we praying for other believers and going out of our way to serve one another?? or not really caring??

to me, these are the things that i am concerned about. i have been so disappointed by the american "business-style" CEO ran church that is weak in power and careless in outreach. but does that mean that everyone that meets in a building is like that?? not at all. in fact, until i find a home fellowship that is according to what i see in the word, i will attend a church in a building. i will be hoping and praying that the Lord will bring me together with believers who desire to see Christ preached and proclaimed in the streets and the poor fed at home, all the while, loving and serving one another..

that is my desire, but the Lord will make it a reality..

 2007/7/15 10:23Profile
heartablaze
Member



Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 65


 Re:

Yes, wherever we meet, as the body we should worship in spirit and in truth. Hypocrisy, going through the motions is not pleasing to God in the least. As I have been reading through Jeremiah, this has been apparent: God is after your whole being.
Jer 9:
25Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised;
26Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.

Giving sacrifices to him and the idols of the pagans around you was not enough in that covenant, and it is the same now. He requires full worship of HIMSELF. Many times in Jeremiah, God gives chances for the people to repent, but they are so caught up in their neighbor's religions and high places that they do not do what he says. They do not listen.
Jer 7:
11Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.
12But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel.
13And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not;
14Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh.
15And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim.

In conclusion, what is more important? The heart, or the deeds? I think they are intertwined, but if the deeds are unreal, then it means nothing. What one does should come out of the heart, for "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another." 1 John 4:10-11
What we do should be authentic and holy.


_________________
Kelsey

 2007/7/15 11:52Profile









 Re:

Quote:
In a second, of course. What I was writing was the words I SAW ON A SCREEN, not the man, that's the bane of this form of intercourse, we are not face to face. and sometimes when I read a sermon, an exhortation, a rebuke to the church, etc, and it doesnt read "right" to me, I must speak, and sometimes words are sweet,sometimes not, either way.



Yeah, we're two peas in a pod bro... I know I come across harsh or misrepresent becaue of the whole forum dialog. I didn't intend to imply that you're haten Josef... I just wanted to say he is NOTHING like those shock preachers who stand on street corners bringing reproach to Jesus through their hateful tactics.

Jeremiah was a man of tears and a man who publicly brought shocking and sweeping rebukes to the backslidden religous community and leaders. The Lord himself was mistaken to be Jeremiah by some...

In Christ - Jim

 2007/7/15 14:57









 Re:

Quote:

jimdied2sin wrote:
Funny that you would write such an absurd comment then turn on me with a personal attack based on a couple posts in this thread... .




Are you joking? If you show me where your posts on this thread contain any grace or love rather than the judgment of God and I will really sincerely ask forgiveness on this very thread. It wouldn't hurt me a bit to admit a fault. It doesn’t really matter, Say what you say, but you are still like the rest of us who shop at grocery stores, supporting the store which sells alcohol and tobacco and other things that destroy lives. No matter what way you want to try to get around this fact, it's true, and I will continue to ring this out as truth. You don’t even know who I am. I am the most least likely to speak a defense for the church. But understand in these times we are living, you gotta face some facts Mr. Jim. There is no more running from sin. There is no more avoiding it. It is everywhere engrained in our very systems of life. It is so rampant it could walk into your very house any time. You place the lamp on its stand so ones can see its light. I know you’re smart enough to know not to forsake the assembling of believers. There are many different churches I know, even the first Presliterian Church Of Elvis The Devine. But I know in my heart of hearts, there is a church near you in which you can be a light at. But if you wish to continue to run from a lack of perfection in them, get all your shoes out, because your gonna run the rest of your life. It would be a shame that one soul was not reached by your inability to stretch yourself out in love. And I didn't attack you. My conscience is clean. I simply made a comment considering the post of this thread alone. It to me contained all judgment of God and, no Grace or Love of God. Which is out of our dear lord's character. The lord loves his church Jim, and the church is the gathering of believers, not of course a building. But it was established in the book of acts, and the true apostles were willing to die for it. And never quit on it as such as ones like you.

 2007/7/15 15:07
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I know I come across harsh or misrepresent becaue of the whole forum dialog. I didn't intend to imply that you're haten Josef... I just wanted to say he is NOTHING like those shock preachers who stand on street corners bringing reproach to Jesus through their hateful tactics.



If anyone has a tendency to come off wrong in these forums, it is I. Everything I write on here is just so fragile; it's not enough to have the right words and motive...the written tenor has to be seasoned as well. The articles brother Josef writes may appear a bit angry, a bit lacking in grace...though I am sure this brother has a big heart for the Lord and tender compassion for the poor. This is the good witness I receive from this dear brother. The same with brother Jim.

The Lord is in the process of refining all of us, and if anyone needs work, it is I. Because I am such a flawed vessel, I'm learning to not be so quick to judge other brothers' ministries and assume I know their hearts -- because I just might misinterpret them. And I know what that feels like.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/7/15 18:28Profile





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