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 Re:

if it be possible.
NT:1415
dunatos (doo-nat-os'); from NT:1410; powerful or capable (literally or figuratively); neuter possible:
KJV - able, could, (that is) mighty (man), possible, power, strong.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

if
NT:1487
ei (i); a primary particle of conditionality; if, whether, that, etc.:
KJV - forasmuch as, if, that, ([al-]) though, whether. Often used in connection or composition with other particles, especially as in NT:1489, NT:1490, NT:1499, NT:1508, NT:1509, NT:1512, NT:1513, NT:1536, NT:1537. See also NT:1437.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

if it were possible.
if it be possible.

I think the variation comes on the the (were) and the (be) in which there is no greek reference.

when you check out the if and were you get this.
NT:9999
NOTE: inserted word (x); This word was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


I'm taking the whole Bible and looking at the whole picture, not just that one particular verse, which lines up with the rest of the Bible, such as.

Eph 1:13
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
KJV

Rom 8:38-39
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV


2 Tim 1:12
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
KJV

John 10:29
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
KJV


My faith is in HIM, not me.

Now if you want to give equal power to the devil, then I guess a christian could be concerned.

but Jesus said:

1 John 2:12-14
12 I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. 13 I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father. 14 I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

John 16:33
33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Luke 12:31-34
31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
KJV

Now how would we fear not as Jesus said, if there was a danger we could be deceived?

Not by our power, or our might, but by my Spirit saith the Lord.

1 John 2:19-20
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
KJV

Jer 24:6-7
6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.
7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.
KJV







 2007/9/4 10:50









 Re:

2 Thessalonians 2:9 (NIV)
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Those who perish will do so because they refuse to the love the truth. One example is the prosperity Gospel, believers refuse to love the truth that they should sell their possessions and give to the poor, and so are handed over to strong delusion that allows them to sit under false teachers such as Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer. These people think they are blessed by God and saved by Jesus, but they are under strong delusion and Gods wrath abides on them.

Anytime we are convicted in our heart by the Holy Spirit and the word of God and we don't obey we start to set ourselves up for strong delusion. May you hate your life and love the truth at all cost!

In Christ - Jim

 2007/9/4 11:14
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Bro. moe_mac:

Jesus Told His own desiples [b]Mat 24:4[/b] [color=990000]And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.[/color]

Now, if it were never even conceivably posible, why in the world would Jesus tell the future Appostles to take heed that no man deceive them?

In addition, the Holy Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall [b]depart from the faith[/b], giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils(1Tim 4:1)

Quote:
Now how would we fear not as Jesus said, if there was a danger we could be deceived?


Not to fear, but be aware or take head!!!
Be concerned that there is a devil out there more inteliget and crafty than we are who has been using the same tactics for mellenia.

 2007/9/4 11:56Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Bro. moe_mac:

Jesus Told His own desiples [b]Mat 24:4[/b] [color=990000]And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.[/color]

Now, if it were never even conceivably posible, why in the world would Jesus tell the future Appostles to take heed that no man deceive them?

In addition, the Holy Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall [b]depart from the faith[/b], giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils(1Tim 4:1)

Quote:
Now how would we fear not as Jesus said, if there was a danger we could be deceived?


Not to fear, but be aware or take head!!!
Be concerned that there is a devil out there more inteliget and crafty than we are who has been using the same tactics for mellenia.



[color=0000FF]When you look at when Jesus told them that, it was before they received the power from on high in the upper room. Before the day of Pentecost. Who gets the spirit now? Whosoever will make HIM Lord and the promise was for them and their children and their children and those far off ( that's us) and as many as God will call.
There are many departing from the faith now. Were they even sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise at their new Spiritual birth and became a new creation is the question.

Does that mean the devil is gone, no,
Amen, on the devil out there going about as a roaring Lion seeking whom he may devour. He may be more intelligent and craftier than we are, but we have an advocate with the Father and we need to be prayful and dependant upon HIM daily for that protection against the evil one. Without HIM (Jesus) we are nothing. It is in HIM and through HIM that everything finds it's purpose. If we boast about anything, let us boast about HIM. God Bless Logic and I enjoyed the exchange.
In HIM and through HIM we are more than conquerors through HIM who loves us..

Rom 8:35-36
Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.[/color]

 2007/9/4 13:09









 Re:

Moe said:

Quote:
There are many departing from the faith now. Were they even sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise at their new Spiritual birth and became a new creation is the question.

And the answer is that some were, yes. You can't depart from something you were never "in", or "part of" in the first place.

It is [i]very dangerous[/i] to assume that it is impossible to be deceived. This view is itself a deception.

I speak from both Scripture and personal experience.

It is also true that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ.

[edit], add:
That is one of the many paradoxes of Scripture, and (by the way) one of the reasons I believe that predestination and free will are both true.[/edit]


Jeannette

 2007/9/4 13:24









 Re:

Quote:

LittleGift wrote:
Moe said:
Quote:
There are many departing from the faith now. Were they even sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise at their new Spiritual birth and became a new creation is the question.

And the answer is that some were, yes. You can't depart from something you were never "in", or "part of" in the first place.

It is [i]very dangerous[/i] to assume that it is impossible to be deceived. This view is itself a deception.

I speak from both Scripture and personal experience.

It is also true that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ.

[edit], add:
That is one of the many paradoxes of Scripture, and (by the way) one of the reasons I believe that predestination and free will are both true.[/edit]


Jeannette




moe replied:
If you will read my post real close, no where did I say no person not be deceived. Is this what you wanted to read and infer or what? I think much of the departing of faith that we think takes place in believers, is they was never there with HIM as Lord to depart from the faith in HIM, because they never had any faith in HIM to start with. It shows by their works or no works. Not to be saved by works but unto good works.


1 John 2:19-20
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
KJV

Again my faith is not in me but HIM
Jesus King of Kings
Lord of Lords :-D

 2007/9/4 13:44
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
moe_mac wrote:
When you look at when Jesus told them that, it was before they received the power from on high in the upper room. Before the day of Pentecost.

That is not the point. Jesus knew that they would received the power from on high, however HE still warned the about being decived after the fact.

Quote:
moe_mac wrote:
There are many departing from the faith now. Were they even sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise at their new Spiritual birth and became a new creation is the question.

If one is in the faith, one would have HIS Seal.

Quote:
moe_mac wrote:
He may be more intelligent and craftier than we are, but we have an advocate with the Father and we need to be prayful and dependant upon HIM daily for that protection against the evil one.


Having an advocate with the Father is about sinning(1John 2:1)
And bing prayerful is good, however:
[b]2Corinth 11:13-15[/b] [color=990000]For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
[b]:14[/b] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[b]:15[/b] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.[/color]

These "false apostles, deceitful workers" are loved by the church.
Benny Hinn, Kenneth Coppland, The whole TBN crowd.

If christians can not recognise the devils ministers which are transformed as the ministers of righteousness How then are the not going to be decived?

I have seen many real christians fall for the "laughing revival" also the brownsvill "revival", the "Toronto blessing"...ect...

All these who fell into these herasies were saying, "I trust god not to lead me into error". All the while they were being deceived into error and this is what you are saying.

Why do you think that my pastor wrote two books abouth these things?
"Weighed and Found Wanting"
by Pastor Bill Randles
&
"Beware the New Prophets"
A Caution Concerning the Modern Prophetic Movement
by Pastor Bill Randles

Why do you think that Paul told the Corinthian Chruch us (or us) about these " false apostles, deceitful workers"?
Paul warned them because they were accepting them into their Church and being decieved by them. They were Christians who have the Holy Spirit in the Corinthian Church that Pauld was writing to.

In addition to the Corinthian Church, take the Galatians for an example:

[b]Galatians 3:1[/b] [color=990000]O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you...[/color]
[b]Galatians 4:11[/b] [color=990000]I am afraid for you...[/color]
[b]Galatians 4:20[/b]...[color=990000]I stand in doubt of you.[/color]

They were decive to go back into bondage of the law.
Do not be presumptuous or over confident, because if one does not think he can be deceived is deveived allready.

 2007/9/4 14:37Profile









 Re:

2 Cor. 11:13-15
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Brother Frin, Crrschk, LoveHim, LittleGift, Etc., thank you for your posts here.
These of verse 15 have always been around but are now increasingly so and extremely subtle and convincing, since Paul said - Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
And Jesus warns us Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Just read an excellent Sermon posted by Sermon Index that would increase our discernment here - https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12793&post_id=151030&order=0&viewmode=flat&pid=99118&forum=34
Thank you all.

 2007/9/4 15:53









 Re:

Quote:
edit: somebody wrote:
These "false apostles, deceitful workers" are loved by the church.
Benny Hinn, Kenneth Coppland, The whole TBN crowd.
If christians can not recognise the devils ministers which are transformed as the ministers of righteousness How then are the not going to be decived?



moe wrote:
God's people through HIS Spirit living within them will get discernment on exactly who the false prophets are. Do we think we need to name them or do we only need to speak the truth and if the truth as it is lines us against someone else or with them, then so be it.
Don't you think God has the power to take care of false prophets in HIS time table? I think He does. I also think He knows how and has the power to take care of those who speak against HIS true prophets. I remember what happened to Ahab and Jezebel. Knowing this, I can see how being very careful make the right call would be important, if they did indeed make a call. What do you think?
I believe this subject, is one of the things the Bible refers to, when it speaks of fearing God. I don't know, I would like to believe God might look over a little ignorance, but anything else I would be very fearful of.

 2007/9/4 16:59









 Re:

someone copied and pasted:
2 Corinth 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.


moe wrote:
An Apostle is one that writes God's Word under the direction of the Holy Spirit. That's why it says this.
Rev 22:18-19
[u]If any man shall add unto these things,[/u] God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19[u] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,[/u] God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
KJV


 2007/9/4 17:11





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