SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Should we believe the trinity?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 )
PosterThread
shazbot
Member



Joined: 2004/2/11
Posts: 60
USA

 Re:

I was thinking about the matter, space, and time thing in relation to Einstein's theories (which have no conflicting evidence of yet, and some supporting evidence) of space-time. This seems unbalanced, so it would appear that just as gravity is a distortion of space-time, matter must also be directly related to space and time, to form a matter-space-time bond. Just a theory...

 2004/4/22 23:44Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

Quote:
Hey, maybe I’m going to take the words of Jesus too far, but here goes. "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. For he who is not against us is for us.” (Mark 9) JW do not speak ill of Jesus.



nekaras,

I would have to disagree with you on this one. As others have just previously posted, the Jesus that JW's preach is another Jesus. He is the first of God's creation and the Archangel Micheal according the JW's. They do speak ill of Him by denying His diety and physical resurection.

Quote:
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not resen then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whome He did not raise up if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. (1Cor. 15:12-19)



The Jehova's Witnesses teach that Jesus did not raise from the dead physically but that his spirit came up and his body somehow just disappeared and disolved. The word for resurection does not support this idea but implies a physical resurection. This is the hope of the Church that the JW's seek to deny.

The Jehova's Witness does not hope in the work of Calvary but denies it. The JW must work for his salvation and hope that he has done enough good that in the day of judgement he can be found worthy of life. The Christian's hope is only Jesus. There is only one way and that is His work on Calvary. There is a world of difference between The Jehova's Witness and a Christian.

I'm sorry for the bad words that have been pointed your way, I do not want this to become a matter of simply winning an argument because the condition of your soul and where you will spend an eternity is the most important issue you will ever deal with. It's one that you had better make sure that you are right on because there's no second chances once you die.

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/4/23 0:18Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

nekaras wrote:

Quote:
I’m not against you and we shouldn’t be against others who are trying to follow Christ, Including JW, who ask the question, “Should We Believe in the Trinity.”



Openairboy wrote:
Quote:
The fact of the matter is, we have different Jesus'



Indeed, I don't believe it's a matter of 'against' them, they (their hierarchy) have a system that amounts to brainwashing, I feel for the people that get caught up in this. If anything their teaching would be 'against' us, as they state it is.

A good nutshell of their main teachings:
http://www.carm.org/jw/nutshell.htm



_________________
Mike Balog

 2004/4/23 0:53Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I was thinking about the matter, space, and time thing in relation to Einstein's theories (which have no conflicting evidence of yet, and some supporting evidence) of space-time. This seems unbalanced, so it would appear that just as gravity is a distortion of space-time, matter must also be directly related to space and time, to form a matter-space-time bond. Just a theory...



er, thanks, I think...

I thought the theory of relativity was the explanation of why time seems to go more slowly when you are with your relatives? :-D


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/4/23 4:58Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

I don't rally want to discuss quantum theory, but, with that Einstein thing I was reminded about another conversation I had with the same friend (his name is Damon by the way); Damon once asked me how it was possible for all these positively charged particles inside the nucleus of an atom (that repel each other) to be so tightly packed together? Because science does not know what holds them together- it only knows that when you split the bond an atomic explosion takes place. I have no clue I said. To him it was a simple answer: Hebrews 1:3... God is upholding all things by the word of His power.

This was not original but it was a great answer. God is holding everything together. How could a person not realize that there is something or someone holding all this together? It is all clearly seen on a Newtonian level. With our natural senses we are able to see this in plain sight. I think that to delve deeper into wave and particle theory is to reach beyond what the passage intends; though it is all still interesting.:-)

God Bless,

-Robert






http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i3/gravity.asp


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2004/4/23 8:09Profile
todd
Member



Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

Quote:
"The purpose of this was to see the responses. Some are pretty cool. Most are arguments not using scripture. That's the difficult part. Sure, John seems to be pretty clear. Plus, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are used in the same sentence. Peter has a sentence or two that seem to equate Jesus with God. The point is, most of the clarity has come from others, expounding on the scriptures."

I just ran across this Scripture today and I can't see how it's conceivable to deny the trinity with this single verse in mind.

Mark 13:32
"But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, [b]nor the Son, but the Father alone[/b]."

I don't know if that verse has already come up. I am really interested to see how a Oneness adherant understands this verse and attempt to assimilate it into their theological grid.

The Scripture clearly states here that there are things which God the Father knows that God the Son does not know. There are things that the Father knows [b]alone[/b]. Therefore, musn't the Father and the Son be different persons?

 2004/4/24 23:48Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re:

Quote:

I just ran across this Scripture today and I can't see how it's conceivable to deny the trinity with this single verse in mind.

Mark 13:32
"But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, [b]nor the Son, but the Father alone[/b]."

I don't know if that verse has already come up.

I recall mentioning it back on the first page or thereabouts, along with a few other verses that require explaining by the Oneness camp.

Quote:
I am really interested to see how a Oneness adherant understands this verse and attempt to assimilate it into their theological grid.

As am I. The one Oneness fellow I talked to recently about all this responded to Mark 13:32 (and other such verses) with something along the lines of "we can't expect to understand it with our limited intellects, it's a mystery." He used to be Trinitarian, and was fairly lukewarm then, but got a lot more serious about living pleasing to God when he went Oneness (not because of that, I believe, a lot of change happened at once). He's a good man, as far as I know, he just got indoctrinated into this thing so deep that he won't even seriously reason about it.

I don't expect to fully comprehend an infinite God, but I think it's pretty clear that one person cannot both know and not know a single fact. The only ways to dispute that is to redefine the term "person" or to show that the patently obvious interpretation of Mark 13:32 isn't correct.

edit:
And nekaras, not to be impatient or rude, but you still haven't addressed those Scriptures, and I'd really like to know if Unitarians can actually explain all of them.

 2004/4/25 9:08Profile
nekaras
Member



Joined: 2004/4/19
Posts: 12


 Re:

[size=x-small]And nekaras, not to be impatient or rude, but you still haven't addressed those Scriptures, and I'd really like to know if Unitarians can actually explain all of them.[/size]

Do you mean Unitarians or the believers that claim Oneness? If you mean Unitarians, then the scriptures you wrote are the very ones they use to contradict the trinity. The scriptures you sent give a problem to people who say Jesus is all-knowing God. Uni's say God is all-knowing and Jesus is the Son of God using those very some scriptures.

Honestly, there is a very fine line between Uni's and Trin's. The initial discription sounds very different, but when each camp elaborates, they say nearly the same thing.

In case anybody missed it, I'm a triny.

 2004/4/26 0:21Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy