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InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2734
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

[i]Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.[/i](Gal 5:19-21 ESV)

Wouldn't drug use fall in the same category as drunkeness? Paul calls this a work of the flesh, can we cast out the flesh?

I don't doubt for a moment that the demonic world is very real and active but there is a real danger when we look at everything as demonic attacks or demonic posession. The danger comes when we blame things on demons instead of accepting the resposibility ourselves. If we are disobedient and sinful the resposibility is to look at our own lives, the verses above tell us the real issue is with sins of the flesh. This doesn't call for casting out of demons but rather for confession and repentence;

[i]If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.[/i]
(1Jn 1:8-10 ESV)

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2007/7/5 10:24Profile









 enid...not in the spirit you think

I wanted to post the initial post not to distract, nor to have everyone agree with me.

I made the initial post, testifying to what the Spirit in me was crying out and witnessing what I just saw, and I what I felt in the Holy Ghost was the spiritual component beyond the surface of it all, which is an epidemic use of this killer drug.

Nor am I involved in the ministry of seeing and casting out denoms in everything I see and don't like. Not at all.

It's just that when I saw this video, a matter of fact bit of news reporting, I saw beyond that, to a spiritual component, that is entirley unwholesome and with the power to "kill, steal and destroy", that's all......if my heart testimony is something questionable and distracting, then by all means, by pass it, seek what is Good.....God bless you.

 2007/7/5 10:25









 Re: Ron

Quote:
Wouldn't drug use fall in the same category as drunkeness?



respectfully, no.

let me put forth one Greek word:

Pharmakeia.

translations and usage:
1.the use or the administering of drugs
2.poisoning
3.sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4.metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

Quote:
The danger comes when we blame things on demons instead of accepting the resposibility ourselves



That's all well and swell, but I heard one of these lost souls saying, I started "using", and I "lost myself". So to me, your statement lacks "about accepting responsibility" lacks a certain agape love, or a realization of "there but for the Grace of God go I".

When these people start using, its because they have an empty room, unfilled, nothing in it, and that first hit, they open a door, and a demon sweeps in, at first smiling, happy,spreading joy and euphoria, and then after time, this spirit embodied thru this hellish substance spreads out it true game, "kill, seek and destroy".

and there is no real resembalance to wine, as opposed to meth, meth is truly in an inorganic substance, that can alter our brain, concocted using 20th century technology.

My whole point was, as the Body of Christ, what do we do about this demon, this pharmakeia, and the wreckage that lay strewn about in its path, the other victims? First we pray, yes! But what about the children, the unwitting and helpless victims, who have had their parents snatched away, socked into a foster home, that might be worse than the former home?

I have to be frank, not because I feel a need to be agreed with, and maybe its a failure of communication via the internet, but those on this thread who feel that I'm testifying in something distracting or extra-Biblical....it grieves me, because that's not what I meant: I wasn't endevouring to craft a name chart of demons, or advocate a ministry of casting out demons, I'm looking for the "lepers", those nobody wants to touch, to save, to heal. thats all,and that's where I'll leave it, and pray that you and maybe enid understand what I'm trying to say and can see that it is all tied into the Ministry of the Gospel that gives life, and life abundantly.

just in closing, maybe the internet isnt the best place to discuss the Deep Things of God, because all we ARE doing is just typing out mere words, alone in our rooms and garrets.....and church as "we do it" today has just become an empty hollow sham shell of itself, pro-forma, by the numbers, stand up, sit down, say "amen" at the right places, listen to a man in a suit give a lecture, and then leave....and then bless his soul, this same man on wednesday will hold a Bible study in those same pews, another lecture, another round of amens, and then we leave, till sunday, "wash, rinse, repeat".

sigh.

There is Power in the Blood, wonder-working Power in the Blood of the Lamb.

May God bless you, (and me)

 2007/7/5 11:05









 Re: "Meth" the name of a demon


InTheLight said

Quote:
Wouldn't drug use fall in the same category as drunkeness? Paul calls this a work of the flesh, can we cast out the flesh?

Hi Ron,

It is the work of the flesh which opens the spirit and the soul to the kind of damage which only Christ can heal, especially if the person does not know Him.

I'd like to add, that the effect of crystal meth on the mind is something way beyond what alcohol does.

My son was sharing a house with an ex crystal dealer who looks about forty, but claims to be in late twenties. In an alcoholic rage one day, he took a door off its hinges and a central heating radiator off the wall while attempting to prevent himself from damaging the people around him who had (wisely) barricaded themselves into their rooms with justifyable fear.

Salvationists would refer to alcohol as 'the demon drink'. Any known sin committed by a Christian, offers a spiritual stronghold from which it is even more difficult to wrench back one's life. (Experience talking again. :-o)

Quote:
This doesn't call for casting out of demons but rather for confession and repentence;

Surely it is not an 'either - or' option? That's a start. But the whole reason bondage is called 'bondage' is that people don't get free from it unless someone else comes and unties them. It may be the individual who knows what's happening invites Jesus to come and release them, or, they may need someone else to get the discernment from God, and pray for them. So, it may call for [i]all[/i] that.

 2007/7/5 11:08
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Ron's: Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, [u]sorcery[/u], enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.(Gal 5:19-21 ESV)

Wouldn't drug use fall in the same category as drunkeness? Paul calls this a work of the flesh, can we cast out the flesh?



I used to taeach our youth on this subject as here in Independence, MO. it was once called the Meth capitol of the world. Everywhere you look folk have the tell tale signs of having suffered meth use.

To answer your question; Yes it is a work of the flesh as the Greek word is [i]pharmakia[/i] from which some say we derive our English word [i]pharmacy[/i]. It is found in Galatians 5:20 and Revelation 9:21, 18:23. The word means a "spell binding potient." It is translated in the KJV as sorcery and witchcraft. It is also said to be a sin that can be repented of. However, I do think that folk that are bound to drugs need Divine deliverance in many cases. And though I do not subscribe to the idea that these things are 'demons' in themselves; I do believe wholeheartedly that these types of drugs [i]and[/i] alcohol somehow and sometimes opens the door to the spirit world (If I can say that loosly). My dad who [i]was[/i] an alcoholic and I had this conversation recently and the one question we could not answer was; when a person in effect does not know what they are doing- what is doing the 'doing'? In other words, If I abandon the wheel of a car the car will crash to a stop. What am I to think has happened once I leave the wheel and the car keeps on going? Who or what took control? We never really concluded anything other than it was a scarry thought.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/7/5 11:16Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2734
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
let me put forth one Greek word: Pharmakeia...



Quote:
My whole point was, as the Body of Christ, what do we do about this demon, this pharmakeia...



This word 'pharmakia' also is found in Paul's list of works of the flesh in Galatians 5. Why do you equate pharmakia with a demon when Paul equates it with the flesh?

Quote:
That's all well and swell, but I heard one of these lost souls saying, I started "using", and I "lost myself". So to me, your statement lacks "about accepting responsibility" lacks a certain agape love, or a realization of "there but for the Grace of God go I".



I'm sorry that you feel I lack love. To my understanding of Scripture, the truth is what will make men free. The love of God shed abroad in my heart desperately wants to see men made free, therefore I will speak the truth in love.

I think we borrow from the world too much when dealing with sin, especially those involved in drugs and alcohol. Even the word 'addiction' tends to place responsibility outside of a person. Men need to repent of and confess sins, Christ will deliver them as He has promised. As a former drug user myself and as one who is involved with many in a drug and alcohol ministry at my church, I have seen Him set folks free of meth and many other awful things by them simply hearing the word and receiving Christ.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2007/7/5 11:31Profile
running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:

worm4Christ,
I understand and completely agree with your heart on the whole matter. The ravaging effects of meth are way beyond comprehension.

I'm originally from Oregon which is where some of the worst meth problems in the country are. I now live in Cheyenne, which is the capitol of Wyoming, (actually I'm living in Pennsylvania at the moment but that's only temporary as I'm a one year volunteer for a ministry) which also has some very severe meth problems.

As you're driving down the streets in these places you can spot a meth user from a mile away. The thin ragged hair, missing teeth, loose wrinkled skin, sores... it's enough to make one sick to their stomach. And my heart cries the same that yours does-

Children of God, why aren't we what we ought to be! Why aren't we shaking the world for God! The world is in hell already even while it journeys toward hell and ultimately to the lake of fire, and the church (that means ME too!) is falling down on the job of turning this world upside down for God.

Oh christians, please seek God with me to deal with the things in our lives that hinder Him from pouring out the Holy Ghost on us again!!! We (the church) are the problem. God deal with us! WE need revival so that God can reach this sin-torn land of ours [i]through[/i] us!


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/7/5 11:35Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Men need to repent of and confess sins, Christ will deliver them as He has promised.



I agree with this, but drug use does open the doorway to hell wide open that many demons may come in. I am not a demon in every pig kind of guy myself, but a short amount of time spent doing personal work in the inner city will bare witness to this demonic activity.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/7/5 12:05
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2734
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
I agree with this, but drug use does open the doorway to hell wide open that many demons may come in. I am not a demon in every pig kind of guy myself, but a short amount of time spent doing personal work in the inner city will bare witness to this demonic activity.



Jim, I can certainly agree with this. I have been involved in street ministry to the inner city homeless here in Phoenix for about 4-5 years now and I am also well aware of the demonic activity, it is very real.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2007/7/5 12:16Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I have been involved in street ministry to the inner city homeless here in Phoenix for about 4-5 years now



Praise God, may He keep you and guide you as you reach out to the "foolish and despised" things of the world. PM me sometime bro, I'd like to talk more.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/7/5 12:24





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