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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Kenneth Hagin & Copeland - Holy Laughter (Video)

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 Re: Kenneth Hagin & Copeland - Holy Laughter (Video)

I'd rather see people laughing, than weeping as they pick up the body parts of their loved ones blown apart by suicide bombers outside a mosque or a Tel Aviv sidewalk cafe, who perpetrate that madness in "name of God"....consider that.

 2007/7/2 15:05









 Re:

Quote:
In 1995 the church i attended experienced a move of the Holy spirit.



Praise the Lord! So what did God do?

Quote:
About half of the congregation got the holy laughter.



Did they get the holy weeping prior to the holy laughter? This would be the biblical order for holy laughter... It only comes after holy weeping.

"...Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh." [Luk 6:21]

"They that sow in tears shall reap in joy." [Psa 126:5]

"Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better." [Ecc 7:3]

"Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness;" [Psa 30:11

"Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law." [psa 119:136]

"And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof." [Eze 9:4]

Quote:
I was "hit " as well.You HAVE to be there to experience the presence of the Holy Spirit.I know who my redeemer is. I have sat in his awesome presence. I have experienced the powerful presence of the Holy Spirit. What are you going to say? you werent there.



I wasn't there... I'm only asking for a little more info regarding the fruit of your experience.

Was the gospel preached? Was Jesus Christ crucified preached? Was the Word of God preached and taught? Could sinners remain at ease in the congregation?

"...for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!" [1Co 9:16]

"But we preach Christ crucified..." [1Co 1:23]

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." [2Ti 4:2]

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself." [1Ti 6:3-5]

"The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised

 2007/7/2 15:38









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Quote:
When the Holy Spirit came in His presence was so powerfull it knocked my pastor on the floor.



I'm not against such an experience... If it happened because your pastor had a revelation of the holiness of Jesus Christ. Falling to the floor as a dead man would be the right way to go.

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead..." [Rev 1:17]

"Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground." [Dan 10:9]

Quote:
My pastor and I were instantly restored back to fellowship.[we had been at odds for over a year] WE supernaturally bonded that night at that meeting. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.Do you think the devil did this?



The devil can restore fellowship among people. he does it alot. Cults have restored fellowship in their meetings. The devil supernaturally bonds people together perhaps everyday.

I wasn't there... I'm only asking for a little more info regarding the fruit of your experience.

The question is not, "Was the fellowship among people restored?" The question is, "Was the fellowship with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost restored? Was fellowship in the gospel restored?"

"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." [1Jn 1:3]

"If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind." [Php 2:1-2]

"For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;" [Php 1:5]

Quote:
People got healed delivered set free saved all in one service.



Healed and saved from what? Sickness or Sinfulness? Or, perhaps both. However, if people where not saved from backsliding... I would question such an experience. If it was both... Then I rejoice that God did a supernatural work of grace in your congregation.

"I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee. [Psa 41:4]]

"Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God." [Jer 3:22]

Quote:
...WITH MANY PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOLY LAUGHTER. Now some would say this is the devil. Well seems like I recall the words of Jesus"how acan satan cast out satan'?



If your experience fails the biblical test, then it could not possibly be God.

1. There must be Holy Weeping prior to Holy Laughter.

2. The gospel must be preached to sinners. To be more specific, Jesus Christ crucified must preached to sinners.

3. The Word of God must be preached and taught to the congregation.

4. If the presence of God was manifested, sinners cannot remain at ease in the congregation.

5. [If any fellowship is restored] Fellowship with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost must be restored. Fellowship in the gospel must be restored.

6. [If any healings accure] It should include healing of soul and not only healing of flesh.

keep in rememberance that the devil is able to perform signs, wonders, miracles, and healings. But, he is unable to heal a soul from sin and death.

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." [Mt 24:24]

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, " [2Th 2:9]

"And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. [Rev 13:12-14]

Only God can heal a soul from sin and death.

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." [1Pe 2:24]

"O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit. Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness." [Psa 30:2-4]

Praise the LORD!
(PS. I edited it for minor spell checks)

 2007/7/2 15:39









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Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
In 1995 the church i attended experienced a move of the Holy spirit. About half of the congregation got the holy laughter. I was "hit " as well.You HAVE to be there to experience the presence of the Holy Spirit.I know who my redeemer is . I have sat in his awesome presence. I have experienced the powerful presence of the Holy Spirit. What are you going to say? you werent there. When the Holy Spirit came in His presence was so powerfull it knocked my pastor on the floor.My pastor and I were instantly restored back to fellowship.[we had been at odds for over a year] WE supernaturally bonded that night at that meeting. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.Do you think the devil did this?People got healed delivered set free saved all in one service.WITH MANY PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOLY LAUGHTER. Now some would say this is the devil. Well seems like I recall the words of Jesus"how acan satan cast out satan'?
......David

Hi David

Unless we were at the meeting you describe we maybe have no right to comment on your personal experience. The comments here are mostly about the video, or in my case another video with Kenneth Copeland (I did try to look a the current one but can't download it at the moment)

Also, we can't completely discount the possibility that the Lord might step in and truly bless someone [u][i]in spite of[/i][/u] the presence of an alien spirit such as was plainly operating in the video I saw. Think of Balaam, the false mediumistic prophet who tried to curse Israel, but God forced him to bless them instead!

All I know is that the video I saw revolted my spirit so much that it almost made me physically sick. There was no way the spirit dominating THAT meeting was the Holy Spirit!

Many of us have probably experienced TRUE holy laughter, and it's completely different from that.

I also experienced the counterfeit laughter, and if felt wonderful at the time, but the Lord later revealed that it had not been of Him after all.

Some people have even needed deliverance after beeing prayed for to receive this "blessing".

I hope your account does describe the genuine and nothe counterfeit, but maybe you need to check it out with the Lord to be absolutely sure.

I did, when someone said that anyone who'd had this experience should repent!

My first reaction was, "That's a bit much! Surely what I experienced was of God - wasn't it?

But I prayed, "Lord, if what she said was right then I'm willing to repent, but I haven't a clue what I'm supposed to repent OF! You'll have to show me."

And He did!

Love in Him

Jeannette
Quote:

 2007/7/2 17:00









 Re:

ce4 wrote:
My point: The problem is not holy laughter, it's not prosperity preaching, or charismatic or baptist or any other belief. It is our own personal lacks of really knowing the one true Holy Lord. We know of him from the Bible. But that just about sums us all up. Where are our greater works the word of God says we can do!!!~But we listen to that ex-murderer Moses, because his face did shine and all the mighty works the Lord did in his daily life. And ex-murderer and adulterer King David, from all the mighty works the Lord did in his daily life. Dear ones including myself. We need to seek the giver not the gift, BUT WE ALL NEED THE LORD MORE AND MORE AND MORE AND MORE (AND HIS REALITY!!!) IN OUR DAILY LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AMEN!!!!!

Thanks for the reminder

 2007/7/2 17:01









 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
oh yes we must be on guard against magnifying the gifts, miracles and signs and wonders.lets take the position that if anything happens in a meeting it is false and of the devil. lets not let the Holy Spirit do anything .That way we will be safe and we will not be decieved.
John said "art thou he?OR SHOULD WE LOOK FOR ANOTHER?
Jesus said"go tell John The blind see ,the lame walk lepers are cleansed,the deaf hear, the dead are raised and to the poor the gospel is preached"
dont you just hate that.? Jesus had the nerve to put the gospel last.But worse than that he claimed his miracles authenticated his ministry.
maybe the bad ,second Jesus is of the No signs and wonders crowd.
how does the unbelieving world know Jesus is alive? By signs wonders and miracles.
And yet I am to swallow this nonsense that signs and wonderss arebad?
How can this be? how did this deception creep in? When Jesus and my ministries are in fact authenticated by signs and wwonders.
The lame man at the gate recieved a miracle not because the disciples were reserved and fearfull that their enduement of power was bad but that " how could they NOT give it out!"
Im looking for my witness to have power not intelectual elloquence.
The man on the street needs a miracle not a hot shot with his scripture flash cards.
while the enimic psycological salvation poweless message is hammered over and again to brain dead drugged out americans,
missionaries are on the front lines of third world countries dying.
but they see mighty mighty miricles.The dead are being raised .I DONT CARE WHAT POONEN SAYS HE IS WRONG THE DEAAD ARE RAISED. At the hands of missionaries.
Miricles are not bad . How can God do bad?
....David

Bro David

[u]No one[/u] is saying that miracles, signs and wonders are bad. Only that discernment is needed as to their SOURCE.

An obvious example of false signs is occult healing, or someone being hypnotised in order to cure them of a phobia or to give up smoking. These methods do work, but is their source the Holy Spirit?

Apparently those who are "healed" by these methods often show signs of spiritual or personality damage afterwards - such as mental troubles, alcoholism or an unusual resistance to the Gospel.

My plea is for discernment in these matters, rather than ASSUMING it is ALL of the Holy Spirit, as is claimed by those who practice these things. What I saw in the video and elsewhere in some meetings was abusive, not Holy Spirit inspired.

The presence of the counterfeit actually PROVES that the genuine exists, but we'd better know the difference!

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/7/2 17:10
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

There are only 2 possibilities concerning the spirit realm. I have been in meetings where the Holy spirit was present to such a degree that people were absolutely disarmed. Wonderfull things happen at this time.
On the other hand I have gone into the very turf of the devil.
My church back in the eighties was in a shopping center. A club for teenagers opened up next door to us. We prayed and it seemed like our prayers were working in reverse and the club doubled in size. We were unable to hold our nitely meetings because of the music and our sisters weree being verbally and physically assalted.
so we decided to be open when they were and tried to turn our church into a mission field.
We were somewhat successfull.!
During this time when the club was growing the police had to be there at all times. It was so out of hand with violence.[ the fruit of the devil].
We decided to go into the club. The bouncers and the police advised us not to.We went anyway. We were so frustrated with this ongoing prob. we thought maybe it was time for a showdown with the devil. I will never forget the feeling of being in there. The hair on the back of my neck stood straight up. It was as if you could feel the very breatth of satan blowing on your neck.I can still remember the strobe lites, the smoke,the blaring music and the painted up demon posesed people jumping at us and intimidating us.
But the most frightning of all was the presence of the devil.
So my point is...... Having been in the awesome presence of both powers I can tell you if you belong to Jesus you will know instantly what "spirit" you are encountering.
Its not spooky , It not some grey,vague,"only we have discernment thing you guys try to make it out to be.
There is a true Holy Spirit and that is it."spirits" other than that are the devil .
YOU TALK ABOUT DECEPTION AS IF YOU ARE EXPERTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE SEE A VIDEO.The people that make those videos you watch are men on a mission. They want to destroy those ministries.
Is there error in the Holy laughter crowd? YES
Error in the wof crowd YES
Error in Charasmatics YES
Error in me....YES
Error in you.... YES
Holy laughter from hell? NO
wof from hell? No
Charasmatics from hell ? No
Am I from hell? Yes.... I mean NO![sorry,a discernment glitch]
Are you from hell? NO

My point is you Will not be decieved if you belong to Jesus and walk in the spirit.
But you psycological christians with theories about the Holy Spirit ..... It is easy to decieve you because you approach spiritual things with your intelectual abilities.
What do you think you will do when the next wave "hits"
You will stand on the sidelines and Judge spiritual things with your intellect.
Read Wigglesworth and you will find out in a hurry you will never be able to guess what is next. He relied on the Inward voice to direct him. His mind would say no to the prompting of God [just like you and me]
But when he obeyed God miracles happened.NOT A MIND , PSYCHE thing!
When you minister in the spirit under the unction of the Holy Spirit, you become "a different person". You can see things and hear things about the person and the Holy Spirit tells you what to do. Just like Wiggleswworth!
LOOK- I WANT THE GIFTS AND I WANT THE GIVER. It is as if this forum says "one or the other but not both".
...David




 2007/7/4 14:13Profile
BrokenOne
Member



Joined: 2007/6/7
Posts: 429
Baton Rouge, Louisiana

 Re:

I have hesitated for several days, trying to decide if I wanted to post here. I am more comfortable in “Devotional Thoughts”. I don’t know if my thoughts will add anything to the discussion, but I submit them for your consideration.

In May of this year I went with some friends to a women’s retreat, knowing that it was a “charismatic” event. I attend a non-denominational church and believe in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit, so I was okay with going. It was a very charismatic weekend. Without commenting on the events of the weekend, I would like to share what I wrote in my journal upon returning home:

I have been unable to finish recording my account of the events of the retreat. I have wondered if possibly I was too tired, but there seems to be no passion remaining regarding the happenings of the weekend. While I was there in the middle of all the eventfulness of it all – the extreme worship, the prophetic words, etc. – it was exciting. But I find myself asking, what has been gained? Did I go to seek a sign, a manifestation, something supernatural that would make me feel special and spiritual? How have those things changed me? They have only made me realize a bit more that there will never be a sign or wonder that will satisfy the longing of my soul – only the wonder that is Jesus Christ. There is no deeper or more profound experience that the love of God in Christ Jesus. And I will find everything I have been searching for when I learn to lose myself in Him.

Danielle


_________________
Danielle

 2007/7/4 14:33Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
psalm1 wrote:
The people that make those videos you watch are men on a mission
They want to destroy those ministries.

Yes, they do want to destroy those ministries, because they are leading people astray and giving a perverted image of God.

Quote:
Holy laughter from hell? NO
wof from hell? No
Charasmatics from hell ? No
Am I from hell? Yes.... I mean NO![sorry,a discernment glitch]
Are you from hell? NO

All the above, Yes!
If it ain't the Holy Sprirt, their is no other spirit but from Hell.

Quote:
My point is you Will not be decieved if you belong to Jesus and walk in the spirit.
But you psycological christians with theories about the Holy Spirit ..... It is easy to decieve you because you approach spiritual things with your intelectual abilities.


Therefore, you say that we don't belong to Jesus and walk in the spirit.

I do not base the judgment of this on my intelectual abilities, but on Scripture along with the character of God.

Quote:
What do you think you will do when the next wave "hits"

It is not the miricals that I am judging, but their corrupt doctrins of demons.
[b]Deu 13:1-3[/b] [color=990000]If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams rises among you, and gives you a sign or a wonder,
[b]:2[/b] and the sign or the wonder which he spoke to you occurs, saying, Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us serve them,
[b]:3[/b] you shall not listen to the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams. For Jehovah your God is testing you, to know if you love Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul.[/color]

Quote:
When you minister in the spirit under the unction of the Holy Spirit, you become "a different person".

That is error.
It is when one becomes saved, that is when one becomes "a different person".

These videos are haveing the flesh is being touched.


Futhyermore, Many people are seeking God and they have no idea how to seek for Him.

Many Christians use their feelings to base their knowledge of God on. They will say, “I feel God in this place or I feel that God is telling me this and that.”

One will always know for a fact that God is telling them something. One must never guess on God!

People who guess on Gods will, They will say, "maybe God wants this or that", and they go on and do what God maybe had said.
Or,
they look for things and say, “Maybe it’s a sign from God.”

God never intended for us to use our senses to confirm spiritual things!
[b]2Corinth. 5:7[/b] [color=990000]“for we walk by faith, not by sight.”[/color] in this verse “by sight” represents our senses or walking by the flesh.

The bible tells about sensual people:
[b]James 3:15[/b] [color=990000]This wisdom descends not from above, but is earthly, [b]sensual[/b], devilish.[/color]
And
[b]Jude 1:19[/b] [color=990000]These be they who separate themselves, [b]sensual[/b], having not the Spirit.[/color]

As in the Old Testament. The Holy Oil used for anointing represents the Holy Spirit.
[b]Exodus 30:31[/b] [color=990000]and say to the children of Israel, This is to be the Lord's holy oil, from generation to generation. [b]32: It is not to be used for man's flesh[/b], and no other is to be made like it: holy it is, and you are to keep it holy.[/color]
[b]Psalm 133:2[/b] [color=990000]the precious ointment upon the head, running down upon the beard, running down upon the beard of Aaron, running down upon the hem of his garment,"[/color]
The Oil never touched his skin (flesh), and he was the high priest.

In these videos, nothing is benificial for sanctification and edification.

Quote:
LOOK- I WANT THE GIFTS AND I WANT THE GIVER.

Please answer this:
What do you want the Gifts for?

Furthermore, we are to test the spirits. How?

 2007/7/4 16:32Profile









 Re:

Quote:
In May of this year I went with some friends to a women’s retreat, knowing that it was a “charismatic” event. I attend a non-denominational church and believe in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit, so I was okay with going. It was a very charismatic weekend. Without commenting on the events of the weekend, I would like to share what I wrote in my journal upon returning home:

I have been unable to finish recording my account of the events of the retreat. I have wondered if possibly I was too tired, but there seems to be no passion remaining regarding the happenings of the weekend. While I was there in the middle of all the eventfulness of it all – the extreme worship, the prophetic words, etc. – it was exciting. But I find myself asking, what has been gained? Did I go to seek a sign, a manifestation, something supernatural that would make me feel special and spiritual? How have those things changed me? They have only made me realize a bit more that there will never be a sign or wonder that will satisfy the longing of my soul – only the wonder that is Jesus Christ. There is no deeper or more profound experience that the love of God in Christ Jesus. And I will find everything I have been searching for when I learn to lose myself in Him.

Danielle



Danielle, That is a very edifying testimony. I thank God you shared it.

-Abraham

 2007/7/4 16:57





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