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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : FOLLOW-UP TO: "The Fatal Trap of Holiness Preaching"

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

There is a separation of Church and State so to speak. Do we sin being born from above. The scripture says no, we cannot. If the Word of God which is Christ and the Teacher The Holy Spirit that is in us divides the Spirit, Soul and Body. Then in the Spirit we cannot sin, it is the Spirit of Christ that is in us and is now our Pure Spiritual Life. The Soul/Mind, Flesh, can sin and when it does The Scripture says we have an Advocate With the Father, even Jesus Christ the Righteous, Seated in Heavenly Places with The Father and us seated with Him. The only place we could be seated in Heavenly Places then is in the Spirit which is perfect by the Christ that is Born Again in us.

If we sin in the soul/mind/flesh and "If we confess our sin God is faithful and Just to forgive us our sin and cleans us from all unrighteousness". Why would God be faithful? Because He is not depending on me to be perfect, but is depending on The only One that is Perfect to accomplish this perfection in us.

So it does not depend on me to accomplish perfection but Christ that is in me.
This is quite plain, of course it is a mystery revealed to Paul and that mystery is Christ in you the Hope of Glory and is accomplished in perfection by that Christ as it is the Will of God.

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.

Not according to my working, but His mightily, that is Jesus Christ in you the only hope of Glory we have. He is our Glory and God the Father has put Him in this place of us being chosen before the foundation of the world, that is in Christ.

Ephesians 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Pretty simple, it is the Plan of God from Genesis to Revelation, and rightly dividing the Word of Truth brings us to this position in Christ, that is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Sin in the Spirit, absolutely not, for the Spirit of Christ cannot sin. Sin in the Flesh, possible and probable with the Advocate Himself being our forgiveness and utter cleansing from all unrighteousness.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Our Glory is Him, His Glory is us, and all are Glory to God The Father. God receives all the Glory from Christ first and from son's of God by the Son of God that is in us. It will all return to God the Father and He will receive all the Glory which

Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.


In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/6/29 21:09Profile









 Re:

I just don't understand Josef's reasoning in calling Giancarlo a believer in "heresy" because Giancarlo believes Jesus can save us from ALL sin.

Isn't that was a Savior does? I think that Giancarlos view, which is what my bible teaches me as well, exalts the saving power of Jesus Christ.

JESUS! THE SAVIOR FROM ALL SIN! That must be the Jesus that we preach! We need to preach Jesus Jesus Jesus, the only one who can deliver you from all sin!

 2007/6/29 23:54
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
JESUS! THE SAVIOR FROM ALL SIN!



But does He save us from the commandments of men?



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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/6/30 0:00Profile









 Re:

Robert,

I think that most of our disagreements arise, because of the backround you have. There are some "extreme holiness" preachers, who seem to make everything into a sin. They exalt the law so highly, that nobody is able to keep it!!

The only sin that I think Jesus saves us from, are the violations of His commandments. Others may preach the commandments of men, but I preach only the 2 Greatest Commandments, and of coarse the 10 Commandments. And there is no justifiable excuse to sin against God.

Other holiness preachers may go too far. I do think Rev Sims has some points, respecting the smoking tabacoo and drinking alcohol. Nobody should damage their body, or their mind. We need to present all our members to the service of Christ.

Regarding joking, I wouldn't say all jokes are bad. I try to be humorous when I open air preach. Holy Hubert was very funny too when he open aired. But foolish talking is, and we will give an account for idle words. Obviously the reason we do something determines whether we are guilty of sin or not. If our intention is selfish, it's sin. If our intention is love, we are blameless.

But sinless perfection is living a life of love towards God and your fellow man. And God requires that we live a life of love. And anyone who loves, fullfills the law. If a loving individual fullfills the law, then they do not break the law obviously. How could someone fullfill the law and break the law at the same time? So perfection is simply loving Jesus and loving others.

 2007/6/30 0:09
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

There is only one sin that keep us from salvation. That is unbelief, all others can be taken care of through Christ and the conviction of the Holy Spirit through repentance and turning from the sin that is revealed, "If we confess God is faithful and JUST to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/6/30 0:49Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=12124&commentView=itemComments]chosen to be holy - Alan redpath[/url]

i think this sermon very clearly and wellbalanced deals with this subject of holiness and sin.


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/30 3:26Profile









 Re: A matter of the heart

Let me suggest the main point of the Word is Jesus saved. I the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was GOD and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. He paid the debt. He calls us, he justifies and he glorifies if we accept HIM. How many times he calls and whom he calls is HIS choice. I suggest based on HIS WORD he calls whosoever will. So if today if anyone would hear HIS voice does anyone need to harden his or her heart.

After accepting Jesus we have HIS SPIRIT living within us. It will change our heart. Not to consider ourselves perfect or strong in the flesh but weak and totally dependant upon HIM. For it is HIM that works in us both to will and to do.

If HIS SPIRT lives in us there will be a desire to be pleasing to HIM and a conviction to asked HIM for forgiveness of our shortcomings and a continuing request to HIM for a closer more obedient relationship with HIM.

If sin does not affect us in our life or someone else’s life are we defending, and upholding the gospel. Is it our flesh that lives now after repentance? Are we crucifying our flesh daily and is the life we now live we live by faith in the Son of God who loved us and gave himself for us? Do not frustrate the grace of God if righteousness came by the law then Christ died in vain.

The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart. It is in HIM and through HIM that everything and everyone finds it's purpose.

Do we become sinless or do we sin-less because HE lives in us.

What did Jesus tell the Pharisees? You honor me with your lips but your hearts are far from me.

It does not cost anything to come to Christ. But HE wants to be Lord. That means authority. Supreme authority.

I believe that lack of surrendering to HIS authority in the church, and individual’s lives and every institution today is holding back revival in a way God really wants revival and in ways it has happened in the past.

If we don't surrender to HIS authority are we rebelling or quenching the Spirit? Anyone making attempts to give equal footing to anyone or anything is spiritual adultery. What would cause anyone to have a change of heart that was a rebellious stage? What about Jonah? What about Lot? What about Pharaoh? What about the rich young ruler? He went away sad. Do people want to be happy or sad?

Does he expect us to give all we know of us to all we know of HIM?

Lord help me to be more obedient and realize my flesh is weak and feed upon your Word and do not quench your SPIRIT. Please forgive me of my shortcomings and my sins while I forgive others.

 2007/6/30 3:49
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:


"This cheap Christianity . . .
offends nobody,
requires no sacrifice,
costs nothing,
and is worth nothing"

1Cr 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's

This Christianity was not cheep, It cost God a black hole in His heart when He saw The dead head of of His Son fall on dead shoulders, that He might purchase for us so Great Salvation.

No matter what man may try to get to heaven by his own price in his own works, there is nothing he can do to purchase his own salvation.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved and the rest is up to God. Phl 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ

Colossians 1:18-28 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

WE were purchased by the Pearl of Greatest price,
Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God, who loved us and gave Himself for us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/6/30 4:45Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
i think this sermon very clearly and wellbalanced deals with this subject of holiness and sin.


Alan Redpath taught along Keswick lines which offered no real cure for original sin but rather a continuous therapy; a sort of sinners-anonymous. :-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/6/30 4:49Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:

Alan Redpath taught along Keswick lines which offered no real cure for original sin but rather a continuous therapy; a sort of sinners-anonymous. :-)



:-) i used to go to drug addicts anonymous, they dealt with many things, but Jesus went for the root, and removed all of that....

do you have any sermon or reading to recommend on this subject Philologos? are there any sermons you preach yourself on this subject available? :-)


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/30 5:34Profile





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